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Mr. HOPKINS. Are there States in the United States where this
drug can be used legally?
Dr. JACOB. Oregon and Florida have specific laws relating to it. It
is prescriptive for interstitial cystitis.
Mr. HOPKINS. How can they do that without the approval of the
FDA?
Dr. JACOB. The States themselves? That is a legal question which
I am not qualified to answer.
Mr. HOPKINS. Thank you very much.
The CHAIRMAN. Ms. Oakar.
Ms. OAKAR. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
All of you certainly have impeccable reputations, although Dr.
Jacob, I understand some individuals who work for the Federal
Government have called you certain names that are very, very
unfortunate. I think that is too bad. I would like to pursue some-
thing you just mentioned, Dr. Jacob, that was implied on "60
Minutes" last evening which I watched as I am sure millions of
other Americans did. That is the question that one reason that this
has perhaps not been approved is because it doesn't cost much to
produce. Would you like to pursue this a little more?
I have had individuals who have done experiments with respect
to cancer research who have told me that once they complete their
research and the drug companies want to buy the rights to their
research, they are not guaranteed that this research will ever get
to the American public so they are hesitant to give up the re-
search.
Dr. JACOB. Well, depending on which figures one reads, in Sci-
ence a few months back there was a figure given of something over
$50 million from the onset to final approval of a drug for its
multiple uses. Now if one is dealing with an agent on which you do
not hold patents, you would naturally be reluctant to invest a large
sum of money in gaining approval because you would not have the
protection once you gained the approval. So I think this is a consid-
eration.
The drug companies do not hold the patents on DMSO. It is like
ether. It was known for 600 years before it was learned that it is an
anesthetic. DMSO was known for 100 years before it was known it
had immediate medicinal properties. It has worked against it.
Ms. OAKAR. You have been very courageous, and I would like to
ask you, and I intend to ask the FDA the same thing, would you
say that money talks?
Dr. JACOB. Yes.
Ms. OAKAR. Drug lobbies have an impact on whether we are
getting the various types of medications to our people.
Dr. JACOB. I have been asked, is DMSO the medical Watergate, I
cannot answer that. I do not know that there is a conspiracy. I do
know that this is a safe effective drug which is not available to
people.
Ms. OAKAR. Doctors, thank you.
Doctor Scherbel, of course those of us from Cleveland are very
proud of the Cleveland Clinic. We know of your national and
international reputation as well. You mentioned that you have
done some studies with respect to this DMSO, and yet these were
not acceptable to FDA. What does it take? If you give them case-by-
