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Bedini motor
discussion

charged's
Diary

By charged, Section
Diaries
Posted
on Sun Jan 18th, 2004 at 04:42:48 AM MST

All things related to the Bedini Monopole Motor

Here's
the main page on John Bedini's website dealing with radiant energy.
Links to the monopole motor discussion and other energy pages are
all on this page.

http://www.icehouse.net/john1/intro.html

Here's the simple project page that describes the basic regauging
motor as well as a second-stage model that collects the motor's emf
and recharges a secondary battery as it runs.

http://www.keelynet.com/bedmot/bedmot.htm

Here's the "local" thread material.

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2003/11/12/8365/3048

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2003/12/14/234949/41

Bedini
motor discussion | 17 comments (17 topical, 0 editorial)

Re:
Bedini motor discussion (none
/ 0) (#1)

by Caballo on Sun Feb 1st, 2004 at 02:25:21 PM
MST
(User Info)

Do not
believe that it is possible to obtain real (i mean full-looped
independed system, of course) over-unity from such kind of
devices.
The same - on the Bearden's MEG
account.

Re:
Bedini motor discussion (none
/ 0) (#2)

by charged on Mon Feb 2nd, 2004 at 09:37:40 AM
MST
(User Info)

Fortunately, these systems are not based on religious faith
before they will operate. "belief" is not a component in proper
system function.

It's possible to fully loop a system through multiple,
discontinuous processes when segments of that loop are open to
collect ambient energy.

A heat pump is one of the best examples. You apply 1 unit of
mechanical input and it leverages/pumps multiple units of heat
which can be concentrated to produce higher, usable potential
energy. User input is small and energy delivered back to the user
for that small investment is much larger.

A wind generator is a more passive system when it comes to
"user input". But, once constructed (user input), it absorbs
enough energy to run itself (machine is powered) AND generate
excess power (transformation and delivery of ambient energy).

All conventional energy sources are resident in our observable
3-D world. Current M-theory strongly indicates that there are at
least 7 other dimensions that are "curled up" from our
perspective. There is technically nothing preventing free flow of
energy to or from those dimensions given the proper device to
generate a "gating" effect.

Bedini's systems seem to be providing such a gate.

Many people have had trouble duplicating his systems because
they choose to modify the devices based on their own "technical
expertise". This usually results in utter failure since the
machines are not working on the principles that most people
"believe" are at work.

A Bedini motor/gen system is not what it appears to be. Looking
at the diagram, your imagination will likely not produce an
accurate model of the machine's effects. I know this much first
hand as it was a hurdle I had to jump before I built my first
working model.

[ Parent
]

Re:
Bedini motor discussion (none
/ 0) (#3)

by JW on Wed Feb 4th, 2004 at 03:48:01 PM
MST
(User Info) http://www.flashsteam.com/

Hi
Charged,

Wow thats quite a statement -Bendini's systems seem to
be providing such a gate-

Not to sure about M- theory... Its just like when some
one tries to tell me there's such a thing as a 5-axis milling
machine, theres only 3-axis in the real world, but yes to make
it easier to understand, there could be 3 axis and two other
that you could call "axis's".
see you got 3D plus time,
time is the fourth dimmension. I would like to know how energy
can be harvested from time? or the so called 6 dimensions left.

You must understand I am a thermodynamist. for the past
coupla days I been checking these links. I honestly believe you
can confiqure a gen-motor that will approche 99% of running
itself, and with a battery time table.

you could cycle lead acid batterys, in such a way that
you could profit(in an energy sense) from the rest period and
gain some mystery(chemical) energy from the batterys. couple
that with a motor that "almost" runs itself, and hey you've got
an anomoly. Actually this is what Id do in an electric car.

If the bendini motor actually had an energy profit
margin, it would be due to inerta... But it does not, since you
yourself state start-up and run modes have equal current draw?

Here's an example of the kind of stuff I read, well
just for fun.

They discovered that the wormhole could be used as an
energy generator-- it could produce useful energy. You could,
for example, pass photons or particles through the wormhole and
have them exit with more energy than they went in with. As we
saw earlier, there is a simular process in the case of
blackholes, the penrose process. In that case, energy was
extracted from the blackhole. But where is the energy comming
from in this case? It obviously has to come from the wormhole
itself; as energy is extracted, the wormhole must lose an
equivalent amount of energy. the easiest way to do this would be
to put some charge near one of the mouths. the electric field
from the charges would then thread its way through the wormhole,
producing an energy generator. Charged particals could then be
fed in one end and come out the other end with more energy than
they went in with. Again, the energy comes from the wormhole
itself. ISBN-0-306-43966-2  page 227.

Although the bedini motor is quite intriguing, it seems
to be designed to run itself without a power input for a long
time, can you tell me if the design of the bendini motor may
"ever" evolve enough to run my 3000watt inverter, and actually
power something else, with substantial measure? Because my
inverter doesnt require belief to operate either.

-JW

[ Parent
]

Re: Bedini motor discussion (none
/ 0) (#4)

by charged on Fri Feb 6th, 2004 at 08:54:47 AM
MST
(User
Info)

Yikes.

Yes, I believe it might "evolve" into many different things
if people begin to dabble with it a bit.

I once built a small vertical axis wind machine that looked
a bit like a pinwheel.

It consisted of four cardboard notebook binders attached to
4 horizontal arms.

Each binder had a string across the edges so that it could
open no more than about 45 degrees.

When you stick it out in the wind, the wind catches and
opens the binder on one side, pushing the assembly around. All
binders heading into the wind are shut and offer little
resistance.

Essentially, until the wind blows, there is no "wind
machine", only some notebook binders sitting there on sticks.
Adding some wind, each binder, in turn, opens, thus momenarily
becoming a passive energy-rectifying transfer device with it's
intercepted energy then being transferred to the axle shaft.

What I'm getting at is that we feel free to accept the idea
of purely mechanical forces in our environment being captured
through passive entrainment. Yet, we have difficulty believing
that the same can be done with electrical or magnetic forces
in that same environment.

There will never be any "defying" of the laws of
thermodynamics.

There's no need.

The term "perpetual motion" is nonsensical and the term
"over unity" should just be replaced with "C.O.P." figures.
The only working machines in the known universe are those that
tap energy from one source and transform it to another form,
doing work.

All machine efficiencies should be rated using C.O.P. alone

(power output to user)/(user input)

Obviously it's better when those energy sources are FREE
for us to use, or very close to it. I almost wish I lived next
to the garbage dump, just so I could tap the methane that the
city wastes on an open gas release torch.

In your minds eye, at least try to imagine a
small-footprint electromagnetic device that draws a very small
amount of energy from a battery. Using that small amount of
power it builds a larger(than the device itself) cross-section
EM "passive particle entrainment zone", drawing in a larger
amount of the ambient energy and concentrating it in a storage
device of some sort. The device itself would be the analog of
a wind machine hub. The "collection zone" would be the analog
of the blades, mounted to catch the wind, having a much large
cross-section than the hub itself does. Now, imagine that the
blades were set up so that it required a small battery to
"unfold" them from the hub, like a flower in the sun. When you
disconnect the battery, the blades just fold back into the
hub.

Now you should pretty clearly understand what I'm getting
at.

As with any other natural energy flow, one must only place
a device of the proper design "in the way" in order to extract
some of it's power.

No energy is truly "free". But, if you can passively
collect it, it gets a little more "free" with each passing
minute.

[ Parent
]

Re: Bedini motor discussion (none
/ 0) (#5)

by Caballo on Sun Feb 15th, 2004 at 08:28:13 AM
MST
(User
Info)

"Fortunately, these systems are not based on
religious faith before they will operate. "belief" is not a
component in proper system function."

Ok. But then why it was not looped?

Ok. I will try explayn how some people achieve
"overunity". They plug digital A-, V, and wattmeters and
count gain with the most pleasant way.

Things are that most of digital tools despite their
over-exactness, give big mistakes when deal with non-direct
and non-sinusoidal currents. In any cases that mistake may
reach up to few times!
For example - not sure you may
exactly estimate fly-back voltage on an usual TFB with the
most of digitals.
In my practice it was showing something
about 11 V instead of real 6, measured with an old good
arrow voltmeter - good reason do not use these modern
digitals.

So people build any circuits that give non-sinusoidal
output, count it with digitals and get perpetuum-mobiles!

But still can not loop them :-(

Guess, why? :-)

[ Parent
]

Re: Bedini motor discussion (none
/ 0) (#6)

by charged on Mon Feb 16th, 2004 at 07:37:45
AM MST
(User
Info)

I tried to explain in the clearest terms possible.
You're response makes absolutely no sense in the face of
my explanation.

Anyone that tries to directly loop a generator output
directly back to the input, probably doesn't know what
they are looking for.

"Perpetuum-mobile" is a nonsensical term that should be
erased from the dictionaries of the world. It doesn't
exist except as a way for "intellectuals" to ridicule
energy systems that they don't yet understand.

The only thing that exists are energy COLLECTION
systems. You collect energy using an artificially broad
cross-section collector and then focus that energy into a
smaller space, increasing the useful potential. Any
windmill does this. Any heatpump does this. A magnifying
glass in the sun does this.

Arrogance precludes understanding.

I know not all, therefore I seek.

[ Parent
]

Re: Bedini motor discussion (none
/ 0) (#7)

by Radomike on Tue Feb 17th, 2004 at
04:02:15 AM MST
(User
Info)

There are more things in heaven and earth
than dreamed of in our philosophies.
(excuse the
horendous paraphrase)

Don't stop seeking.

[ Parent
]

Hi charged. (none
/ 0) (#8)

by Caballo on Tue Feb 17th, 2004 at
11:39:05 AM MST
(User
Info)

Ok. Let it will be just an energy
collection.
As we see, to collect this energy we have
to spend some energy - I see right now at the Bedini's
US 02707357
(http://www.icehouse.net/john1/motor22.jpg)
and
Bearden's US 6,362,718
(http://www.icehouse.net/john1/meg2.jpg)
- am I
right?

The most important question is - will we spend more
energy then receive or receive more then spend?

In the 1 case we dial just with an usual motor
(Bedini's patent) or transformer (Bearden's patent), in
the 2 case we have both generators that give us energy
from it is not important where.

But, if we receive more energy than spend, we can
spend part of that new energy and remove all external
sources of energy, am I right? An usual shool
mathematics allow us to do this.

But all the people inventing overunity (Ok, I will
not say "perpetuum mobiles") devices do not loop them,
just claym that they have overunity or if you also do
not like word "overunity", excess of the received energy
above spent.

They also may use some old tricks, like using of a
cheap low-speed digital meters in measuring of active
non-sinusoidal currents, pulling time - when they use a
few (one works, other is charged) batteries (by the way,
capacity of these batteries are big enough to work
during years (such kind of devices was used in old
electronic clocks) - nobody will wait so long), some
other effects like lighting of LEDs and fluorescents
with low-duty currents (in many cases they (because of
eye integration properties - looks like you see a movie.
You do not see discret images) light so bright as being
feeded with a DC, although consumpt times less energy),
etc.

The only thing they can not to do - loop these
devices, just because they receive less energy then
spend.

And because they can not do this, you say about (my?)
arrogance?

[ Parent
]

Re: Hi charged. (none
/ 0) (#9)

by charged on Tue Feb 17th, 2004 at
12:44:50 PM MST
(User
Info)

Sorry, I was speaking of human arrogance in
general terms, even my own.

What I'm saying is that until you build it and
study it, you won't understand it. It's not what it
appears to be.

If you're attempting to take a standard transformer
and feed it back upon itself directly, you get nothing
but heat and a dead battery.

But, if you build one of these systems and OBSERVE
the properly tuned driving circuit in action and
OBSERVE the tranformer activity and then OBSERVE
what's happening at both batteries, you'll come to the
same conclusion that I did.

I'm saying that if you play around with it you'll
learn much more than you expected to.

[ Parent
]

Hi charged. (none
/ 0) (#10)

by Caballo on Thu Feb 19th, 2004 at
01:08:07 AM MST
(User
Info)

You are right again. But I will not change my
opinion about Bedini's motor just because I well
know such kind of engines. Look at one of them at
the http://www.membrana.ru/images/invent/1072434354.jpeg
That
device contain a clockwork mechanism from the old
Soviet clocks "Slava" at its top part.
Electronic
circuit is identical to Bedini's one, a couple of
permanent magnets age glued to rocking (instead of
rotating, but this is a clocks!) rotor, etc.

You may see the time when this mechanism was made
(date printed on the only BJT in this circuit) -
(19)75. That is true.

An usual 1.5V (appr. twice more then AA) battery
was feeding such clocks during a couple of years...

By the way, author of article on this page (http://www.membrana.ru/invent/?1072434354)
claims he invented how to transfer energy by one
core - you may see added by him small RF
transformer, variable capacitor and high frequency
coil at the bottom of this device.

I am smiling on such kind of "inventions". Yes,
that will work, but that is not something new.

But some thing make me actually serious, for
example Faraday/Tesla/de Palma unipolar generators.

Nobody can explain what is that, and nobody argue
that works. There are doubts about their overunity,
but no doubts these are unexplainable generators.

And the last thing about all that new energy -
there are so much fraud around that.
Some people
swear at the oil mafia, but propose obviously
non-working solutions, so I suspect they are hired
by the same oil mafia.

So be careful - do not believe humans, right like
I am doing :-)

[ Parent
]

Re:
Bedini motor discussion (none
/ 0) (#11)

by mercurous on Wed Mar 10th, 2004 at 11:27:25 AM
MST
(User Info)

I am
building the bedini motor outlined in the mono-pole19.jpg picture on
his index100 page.  Right now, I am just trying to get the
motor function working but I am running into a strange problem that
I can't sort out by myself.  I am a newbie EE just out of
school and have very little real experience with non-ideal behavior
of bjts.

Right now, I just have the trigger and driving coils hooked up.
I have the base pot set to 500 ohms.  As soon as I apply
power to the little circuit, the driving coil goes on and stays on.
If I disconnect the trigger coil, the driving coil goes off.
If I reverse the connection of the trigger coil, the driving coil
stays off.  I would leave it this way, but I am under the
impression that polarity of the trigger pulse is important in
turning on the driving coil at the proper time.  If I
disconnect the driving coil, current stops (obviously).  With
the power on and the positive side of the trigger coil disconnected,
the base voltage on the BD243C bjt is .35V.  when I connect the
trigger coil back up, the current through the driving coil goes on,
the bjt gets hot and the base voltage stays at 0.35V.  with the
power on and the positive side of the trigger coil disconnected, the
positive side of the trigger coil has 0.00 volts on it, which is to
be expected.  Then I connect it up again and current flows
through the drive coil, which I wouldn't have expected.  It is
almost like the transistor is behaving like a PNP.  But then
when I connect the normally grounded side of the trigger coil to
+12V, the transistor goes on then too.  All of these conditions
happen even when I put a new transistor in there so I don't think I
am burning them up.

I am out of ideas and any help I could get would be greatly
appreciated.  Thanks.

Re:
Bedini motor discussion (none
/ 0) (#12)

by monte350c on Thu Mar 11th, 2004 at 09:40:17 PM
MST
(User
Info)

Don't forget this motor is not self starting - you have to
give it a spin to get it going...

Other than that, there's all the info you will need at the
links on the top of this page and also in Charged's other diaries.

I now have my motor and charging circuit working but am still
optimizing things.

To Charged:

I noticed a kind of interesting phenomena, take a small neo
magnet ( I used one about a half inch in diameter and one eighth
thick) and hold it around the coil when the Bedini motor is
running. It almost vibrates out of my hand... up to around 10"
away. There's something interesting happening near this thing!

Ted.

[ Parent
]

Re:
Bedini motor discussion (none
/ 0) (#13)

by charged on Mon Mar 22nd, 2004 at 06:19:46 AM
MST
(User
Info)

When the motor is running at it's "tuned" position,
the stator field is supposed to act like an absorber for ambient
(zero-point??) energy.

I get the impression that the field-effect MUST reach
out to a much larger EM cross-section (in open space around the
motor) than what the "normal" electrical cross-section would be
for a standard steady DC circuit of the same voltage. This is
how it becomes an electromagnetic "windmill".

At least, that's how I'm currently understanding it. I
might be wrong.

I'd say that now you should take a good look at this
article and it's associated diagrams, if you haven't seen it
already.

http://www.explorepub.com/articles/beardon/overunity.html

It's all about regauging, or "teasing" forces that are
normally considered to be "static" in nature, like gravity or
magnetism. This is just like what happens at a bullfight when
the matador waives his cape in front of the bull, coaxing him to
run forward. Then he steps aside and repeats the process. Very
little energy goes into waiving the cape to cause a pulsed
release of the much larger "bull power". ;)

[ Parent
]

Re:
Bedini motor discussion (none
/ 0) (#14)

by charged on Mon Mar 22nd, 2004 at 06:39:21 AM
MST
(User Info)

Your
coil might be getting oscillations (feedback) and therefore it's
getting the transistor hot. Turn on an AM radio and place it next
to the motor. You might hear a nasty screetching tone. If so,
you'll need to use less resistance on the base.

In any case, use this post as a guide for checking your coil
connections.

First, make sure the output winding is connected to SOMETHING.
Preferably, for the simple purposes of getting the motor up and
running, just connect your secondary battery directly in parallel
with the output capacitor. This way you won't have massive HV
spikes hitting the transistor and getting it hot. You can worry
about setting up the cap pulser later. Just get the motor running
for now. You should be using a battery of the same (or higher)
voltage than your source battery. This part is important.

Here's the simple way to keep all your coil winding polarities
straight.

If you dutifully wound your coil with a trifilar winding,
you'll have a cluster of three leads coming off of one end and
another cluster of three leads coming off the other.

Now, using your ohm-meter, find and mark the matching ends for
each winding.

Grab the leads for one of the windings and apply your battery
to determine the coil polarity. You want the stator to repel the
rotor magnets when power is applied. Once you find out which lead
is supposed to get positive power, mark ALL THREE LEADS on that
end with a piece of masking tape with a big "+" sign on it.

Wrap a piece of masking tape around the "top" (stator face) end
leads and mark them with a big "+" sign. Do the same with the
bottom leads and mark them "-".

So now you know which ends are all the same polarity and you
also know which pos and neg leads are for each winding. Got it?
Good.

One of those postive leads is wired to battery positive
(according to the circuit as shown). Take another one of those
positive leads and THAT is the lead that goes to your base
resistor to power the transistor base. The third winding, of
course, is your output winding. Just wire it up as shown.

Let me know if this solved any of your problems.

Once you get one of these working, you'll get better and better
at wiring it without even thinking too much about it. Same deal
with tuning. All you really need is an AM radio once you get the
hang of it.

[ Parent
]

Re:
Bedini motor discussion (none
/ 0) (#15)

by mercurous on Fri Mar 26th, 2004 at 06:06:57 PM
MST
(User Info)

Charged:

You were right, I was getting oscillations.  I was looking
at it with the O-scope and during the time when I presume that the
trigger pulse should just be turning the power coil on, it was
turning off, causing huge (~100V) negative spikes on the top of the
trigger coil and huge positive spikes on the bottom of the power
coil.  It was oscillating in this manner perhaps 10-20 times
per trigger pulse (depending on the configuration I had it in).
This, I suppose, was the cause of my motor not running.
I taped a third magnet on top of the other two 3/4" ceramic
magnets I already had on each of the three poles on my rotor.
I also decreased the base resistance until I just connected
the top of the trigger coil to the base of the bd243c bjt.  Now
the motor runs.  Small success but significant.  I am
still getting two oscillations per trigger pulse and I have NO base
resistance.  I'm thinking that these two things probably aren't
good but this was the only way I could get the thing to run.  I
can post more details about it if you want me to.  Have any
more glorious
suggestions?

Re:
Bedini motor discussion (none
/ 0) (#16)

by mercurous on Sat Mar 27th, 2004 at 12:43:04 AM
MST
(User Info)

I was
fiddling with it some more tonight and I replaced the ceramic
magnets that I added with neodymium magnets.  It ran faster but
I still wasn't able to get rid of what I believe is one extra
oscillation on the trigger and power coils.  It happens about
2/3 of the way through the trigger "on time".  Then there is
another spike that happens when the bjt finally turns off for good,
but I presumed that one was supposed to be there.  The trigger
"on time" was also longer with the NIB magnets.  No surprise
there.  I don't plan on leaving the NIB magnets there, just
playing around.  All in all, I think I have stayed pretty close
to the design.  But I think my rotor might be too big?
Everyone else is building motors with 6" diameter rotors.  Mine
is 12".  I dunno.  I'll keep reading, fiddling until I
stumble across the answer or somone tells me.

Peace

Re:
Bedini motor discussion (none
/ 0) (#17)

by charged on Tue Mar 30th, 2004 at 01:02:18 PM
MST
(User Info)

It's
possibly a "gain" (hfe) issue with your transistor. Check and make
sure that it's up around 80 or higher.

Normally, there is a "zone" of spacing between the stator and
the rotor magnet faces where the motor will run.

If the spacing is too tight, the battery won't break the magnet
loose from the pole in a static test. Too wide a spacing and the
magnet won't produce enough of a voltage pulse to turn the
transistor on.

When it's "in the zone" the closest spacing will draw the
maximum primary driving current, while the widest spacing draws
the minimum input current.

This means it's wise to have an adjustable gap spacing so that
you can find the widest spacing possible that still keeps it
running.

Keep the bridge output loaded with a capacitor and your
secondary battery while you're getting it running. Then switch
over and get the cap-pulse output working.

[ Parent
]

Bedini
motor discussion | 17 comments (17 topical, 0 editorial)

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Related Links

· http://www.icehouse.net/john1/intro.html
· http://www.keelynet.com/bedmot/bedmot.htm
· http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2003/11/12/8365/3048
· http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2003/12/14/234949/41
· charged's
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