Spotlight Interview - Dr. Zahi
Hawass

I met with Dr. Hawass on
March 25, 1997 in his office on the Giza Plateau. Here's what we
discussed:
Guardian: Thank you for agreeing to meet
with me Dr. Hawass. Today I want to discuss the issues of the Great Pyramid and
the Sphinx, and the recent controversies concerning their true age and purpose.
There's a lot of present day speculation by the New Age proponents and their
public that there may have been an advanced civilization prior to the Egyptians.
Has there been ANY physical evidence, whatsoever, that this is even
possible?

Dr. Hawass: Not a single piece of material culture -
not a single object - has been found at Giza that can be interpreted to come
from a lost civilization. Instead we find an abundance of tombs, bodies, ancient
boats, hieroglyphic inscriptions, pottery, bakeries and so on, from the Egyptian
culture of the 4th Dynasty, about 2,500 BC. In archaeology we have no evidence
for an advanced civilization prior to 3,200 BC. Theories and speculations about
a lost civilization seem to excite people more than the discovery of a culture
that we actually find at Giza and elsewhere in Egypt, the culture of Egyptian of
whose existence we are certain. It was a great culture. Why do people need to
look for another? As scientists, we keep an open mind, but we have to base our
ideas about the past on archaeological evidence.

Guardian:
Well, the lack of hard evidence is hard to ignore. But when one actually does
examine what evidence has already been uncovered, it all points to the ancient
Egyptians.

Dr. Hawass: I see that you agree on that! I want to
add that if we found evidence of a civilization at Giza older than that of the
dynastic Egyptians, we would not, and could not keep it from the public. But so
far there has been no hard evidence to support the theory of a prior
civilization. Even if rain water eroded the Sphinx (which is not very probable),
it could not have washed away every single trace of an advanced
civilization!

Guardian: What do you think of the star
alignment that indicate that the apices of the pyramids align exactly with the
belt in the constellation Orion in the year 10,500 BC? I am referring to the
work of Robert Bauval and Adrian Gilbert entitled, The Orion
Mystery.

Dr. Hawass: I believe that in a more recent book
by Robert Bauval and Graham Hancock they claim that the match between the three
pyramids, the stars in Orion's belt, and between those stars and the Milky Way,
and the pyramids and the Nile Valley, is best for 10,500 BC. Bauval and Gilbert
say that Abu Roash, Zawiyet el-Aryan, Abusir, and the Dahshur pyramids of
Sneferu complete the match of 4th Dynasty pyramids to the constellations Orion
and Taurus. Recently, this suggestion has been criticized by scholars who have
some competence in ancient astronomy. For example, Robert Cadwick, who has
studied ancient Assyrian, Babylonian, and Egyptian astronomy, points out in a
recent KMT article, that the supposed match leaves out some of their brightest
stars in Orion. For the convenience of their theory, Bauval and Gilbert match
the 5th dynasty pyramids at Abusir to stars, but not the other 5th or 6th
dynasty pyramids. Chadwick points out that if you actually superimpose the
pattern of Orion onto the three Giza pyramids, the other stars in the
constellation do not match at all the pyramids of Abu Roash and Zawiyet
el-Aryan.

Guardian: I'm sure that you're aware that Robert
Bauval and Graham Hancock are publicly saying negative things about you and
others who oversee the treasures of ancient Egypt?

Dr. Hawass:
Yes, it is unfortunate the things they are saying. For example, Hancock and
Bauval are asking people to sign petitions to stop secretive work at Giza. But
there is no secret work at Giza! Any research project is approved both by the
Permanent Committee of the Supreme Council for Antiquities (SCA) and by our
Security Department. For each project is appointed an inspector from the SCA
Giza Inspectorate. At the conclusion of fieldwork, both the inspector and the
expedition director must submit a report to the Inspectorate and to the offices
of the SCA.
Of course, for Hancock and Bauval to suggest some kind of
conspiracy at Giza helps them sell books. Thus they profit from the pyramids
while in Egypt we struggle to conserve these treasures. While they turn out one
profitable book after another about lost civilizations and attack us for
conspiring to conceal the truth, the truth is that we are in an urgent struggle
to save these world heritage monuments, and do not have time to deal with all of
their theories. We are certainly not helped by their
attacks.

Guardian: They are of the opinion that Egyptian
officials are blocking them and others from returning to the Giza plateau to
continue their research.

Dr. Hawass: So far, the research of
Bauval and Hancock has required no research permit - they are simply theorizing
about astronomical alignments, ancient Egyptian religious texts, and a lost
civilization. No one is stopping Bauval and Hancock from returning to Giza to
speculate about such things.
However, as for the claim that I prevent some
projects from working while allowing others, I want to point out that Egyptian
Law 117 of 1983 states that scholars and institutions can work in the field of
Egyptian archaeology, but we do not permit amateurs to carry out field work. It
is also the case that I alone do not approve work at Giza. I'm a member of the
Permanent Committee of forty scholars, revamped in recent weeks to twenty-two
scholars, that approves all applications for fieldwork. We consider applications
from all over the world. I do not make decisions alone.
Once a proposal is
submitted under the authority of an appropriate institution, we must consider
whether the investigation will be detrimental to the site, and what the
consequences of the research will be our management of the site. After all, when
foreign expeditions come and go, we are left with the responsibility to manage
and conserve what they find. At Giza, we are also working hard to save the
Sphinx. How can we give priority to projects that want to look for secret
tunnels and evidence of lost civilizations?

Guardian: What
about the German discovery of a new door in the Queen's Chamber air vent of the
Great Pyramid? Why aren't they being allowed to continue their research and open
that door?

Dr. Hawass: Much of the comments
about this have come from Mr. Gantenbrink (a German robotics expert) and Mr.
Bauval, who is a friend of Mr. Gantenbrink. Mr. Gantenbrink was a member of a
team of researchers under the recognized leadership of the German Archaeological
Institute in Cairo. The German Institute has the concession [note: a concession
is a permit to investigate a certain area], not Mr. Gantenbrink. As of today, no
application for further research has been submitted by the German Institute.
Apparently there is some difference of opinion between Mr. Gantenbrink and the
German Institute.
The discovery, by the way, is hardly a door in the usual
sense. The so-called "air-shaft" is smaller than 20 cm square. The robot-mounted
camera came to a blocking stone with two copper pins embedded in its face. This
stopped further progress of the robot. If this is a door, it is only big enough
for a rat! The plug is many meters up in the solid masonry of the pyramid, how
should this so-called "door" be opened without damaging the
pyramid?

Guardian: Is it true that a Canadian research team is
going to pick up where the German researchers left off?

Dr.
Hawass: As of today, we have received no proposal from Canadians to work
in the Khufu Pyramid.

Guardian: Some people allege that the
Egyptian authorities and even archaeologists are hiding things from the world
because new discoveries refute the existing archaeological theories. Is there
any truth to this?

Dr. Hawass: This makes no sense. When we
find something new at Giza, we announce it to the world. The Sphinx and the
Pyramids are world treasures. We are the guardian's of these treasures, but they
belong to the world. We will not hide any discoveries, why would we? We have
many reporters in Egypt, as you do in the United States. We will tell the world
community as soon as we have something to announce.

Guardian:
Has there been anything new discovered recently?

Dr. Hawass:
Yes, we just made a major discovery at the Third Pyramid of Menkaure. We found a
pair-statue of Ramesses II, about 15 feet tall, and weighing 4 tons made of red
granite:

West of the Khufu pyramid we have
found about 65 tombs. Some belonged to people with titles connected to the
pyramids. We found a beautifully decorated tomb of a man named Kai:

In front of the Khafre Valley Temple
we found the entrance ramps, with tunnels running underneath, mud brick walls
and platforms, and other traces probably connected with the Purification tent
and Mortuary Workshop that the ancient texts indicated were connected with the
Royal Funeral in the Old Kingdom:

South of the Sphinx we found a
cemetery of a working class with more titles connected to the pyramids:
"Overseer of the West Side", "Inspector of the East Side", "Sculptor", and so
on:

A major sewage project in the modern
town along the Giza Plateau required digging hundreds of meters of trenches, and
carrying out scores of deep core drillings. This revealed evidence of a large
Old Kingdom settlement under the expansion of the modern town. By the way, no
evidence was found of a deeper, or older
civilization.

Guardian: What about the supposed "new" doorway
on the north side of the Sphinx?

Dr. Hawass: The lower part of
the Sphinx body is covered by layers of ancient and modern repair masonry. In
1926, when he cleared the Sphinx, the French engineer Emile Baraize found that a
large patch of the ancient masonry cover had fallen away from the bedrock body
of the Sphinx on its north side. Several of his photographs show some kind of
recess behind the fallen masonry. Baraize recovered this area as part of his
restorations - so this has been seen already. It may be nothing more than a deep
recess in the natural rock of the Sphinx body. If we reopen the underlying
masonry layers of this area, it will be in the course of the ongoing restoration
work, and not to look for secret tunnels.

Guardian: With the
many restorations taking place in the Giza area, including the Sphinx, I assume
that preservation is a major priority of the Egyptian
authorities?

Dr. Hawass: Yes. A major preservation program for
Giza is being handled by the Minister of Culture, Farouk Hosni. We have had the
Second Pyramid of Khafre closed to the public last year for almost a year to
make minor repairs and to reduce the humidity inside, it has since been reopened
to the public. The Third Pyramid of Menkaure will be closing in early April 1997
to give it a rest from thousands of tourists.

Guardian: Is
the Giza Plateau in danger from any earthquakes??

Dr. Hawass:
In 1990 an earthquake near Cairo opened a fissure in the Second pyramid. We
continue to study the plateau and the monuments for faults. But no earthquake
has centered on the plateau itself.

Guardian: As you know many
people, particularly of the "New Age" ilk, are very interested in finding what
they call the "Hall of Records" , supposedly (according to the psychic Edgar
Cayce) located underneath the Sphinx. What do you think about this search for
such a Hall of Records?

Dr. Hawass: I do not believe in this
"Hall of Records". The Sphinx has been thoroughly excavated. My friend and
colleague, Mark Lehner and I investigated it ourselves in 1979. Nothing like a
Hall of Records has been found in or near the
Sphinx.

Guardian: There is also a prominent rumor about a
secret passageway underneath the Sphinx, could you comment on that as
well?

Dr. Hawass: To date, there are only three known passages
connected with the Sphinx. Two of these might have actually been made by
treasure hunters long after the Sphinx was sculpted. In 1837 Howard Vyse created
a crater just behind the head of the Sphinx, and Mark Lehner and myself explored
this again in 1979. We also located a passage at the tail, under the restoration
masonry. It is about 9 meters (27 feet) long and comes to a dead end. A vertical
shaft descends down through the Sphinx body from the top of the waist. This is
actually a widening of a large natural fissure that cuts through the entire site
of the Sphinx. Before modern restorations, it opened more than two meters wide
across the top of the back. Then there is the sealed recess on the north side of
the Sphinx body which we've already discussed, and we expect to open this soon,
but I don't expect to find anything in there.

Guardian: I've
heard talk that the bedrock out of which the Sphinx was carved ends a short
distance in front of the Sphinx, giving rise to the idea that there is a cliff
or drop-off in front of the Sphinx.

Dr, Hawass: I believe that
you are speaking of the harbor. Yes, we found evidence of a drop-off out in
front of the Sphinx Temple, and evidence of the harbor in the tunnels under the
approach ramps in front of the Khafre Valley Temple. But, as of yet, no Hall of
Records.

Guardian: Well, thank you for your time, I look
forward to speaking with you again later on this year. I'm sure that you'll do
your best to keep exploring the plateau and I look forward to seeing what else
you come up with!

Dr. Hawass: Of course. Much of Egypt is
still hidden beneath the sands.

OTHER SPOTLIGHT
INTERVIEWS
with Dr.
Hawass

1998

2000

2001

2005

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