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From: "Carnegie Middle East Program" <agallagher@ceip.org>
To: second.deputy.governor@bcs.gov.sy
Subject: Terrorism Out of Saudi Arabia: Q&A with Christopher Boucek
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 15:46:58 -0400
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Fifteen of the nineteen al-Qaeda hijackers involved in the September 11 att=
acks were from Saudi Arabia. In the decade since 9/11, Riyadh has been cred=
ited as an invaluable partner to Washington in fighting global terror and a=
s one of the world=E2=80=99s best success stories for how to defeat domesti=
c terrorist activities through law enforcement, security and intelligence m=
easures, education, and rehabilitation. Still, some Saudi nationals remain =
an important source of funding for terrorist networks despite Riyadh=E2=80=
=99s efforts to crack down on illicit financing.=20

In a new Q&A, Christopher Boucek assesses the threat of terrorism coming ou=
t of Saudi Arabia ten years after 9/11. Boucek argues that Washington and R=
iyadh have enjoyed a successful relationship in combating global terror and=
 Saudi Arabia is remarkably effective in containing the terrorist threat=E2=
=80=94but if the country loses focus on this priority, terrorism could come=
 back with a vengeance.

Read online:=20=
http://list.carnegieendowment.org/t/772959/13985564/63931/78/=


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>Boucek answers:</strong></span> <br />
                               <br />
                               <a style=3D"color:#002563;" href=3D"#1"><spa=
n style=3D"color:#002563;">What is Saudi Arabia=E2=80=99s connection to glo=
bal terror?</span></a><br />
                               <br />
                               <a style=3D"color:#002563;" href=3D"#2"><spa=
n style=3D"color:#002563;">To what extent are Saudis funding terror and wha=
t has the government done to limit financing?</span> </a> <br />
                               <br />
                               <a style=3D"color:#002563;" href=3D"#3"><spa=
n style=3D"color:#002563;">Where is terrorist funding from the kingdom goin=
g?
</span></a><br />
                               <br />
                              <a style=3D"color:#002563;" href=3D"#4"><span=
 style=3D"color:#002563;">What more can be done to shut down the flow of mo=
ney?

</span></a><br />
                               <br />
                               <a style=3D"color:#002563;" href=3D"#5"><spa=
n style=3D"color:#002563;">Are there still terrorists operating inside Saud=
i Arabia?  </span></a><br />
                               <br />
                               <a style=3D"color:#002563;" href=3D"#6"><spa=
n style=3D"color:#002563;">How successful is Saudi Arabia=E2=80=99s counter=
terrorism program? Is terrorism and terrorism financing a priority for the =
Saudi government?

  </span></a><br />
                               <br />
                               <a style=3D"color:#002563;" href=3D"#7"><spa=
n style=3D"color:#002563;">Who are on Saudi Arabia=E2=80=99s list of the mo=
st wanted terrorism suspects? </span></a><br />
                               <br />
                               <a style=3D"color:#002563;" href=3D"#8"><spa=
n style=3D"color:#002563;">Why is it important to understand the connection=
s among terrorists? </span></a><br />
<br />
<a style=3D"color:#002563;" href=3D"#9"><span style=3D"color:#002563;">What=
 is Riyadh=E2=80=99s role in the fight against terrorism in Yemen? </span><=
/a><br />
<br />
<a style=3D"color:#002563;" href=3D"#10"><span style=3D"color:#002563;">How=
 effectively has Saudi Arabia partnered with the United States to combat te=
rrorism since 9/11?</span></a><br />
<br />
<a style=3D"color:#002563;" href=3D"#11"><span style=3D"color:#002563;">Wil=
l heightened tensions between the United States and Saudi Arabia amid the A=
rab awakening compromise cooperation on terrorism?</span></a>
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s InfoBoxB Image" --><img height=3D"60" width=3D"60" align=3D"left" border=
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                                 <!-- box image end -->
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                                 <!-- InstanceBeginEditable name=3D"AboveLi=
nks InfoBoxB Content" --><a style=3D"color:#002563; font-weight:bold;" href=
=3D"=
http://list.carnegieendowment.org/t/772959/13985564/47476/4/=
"><span style=3D"color:#002563;">Christopher Boucek</span></a> is an associ=
ate in the Carnegie Middle East Program where his research focuses on secur=
ity challenges in the Arabian Peninsula and Northern Africa. He is a leadin=
g authority on disengagement and rehabilitation programs for Islamist milit=
ants and extremists and a recognized expert on terrorism, security, and sta=
bility issues in Saudi Arabia and Yemen.<!-- InstanceEndEditable -->
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l,sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-size:14px;"><strong><!-- InstanceBeginEdit=
able name=3D"Links1 Container Title" -->Related Analysis<!-- InstanceEndEdi=
table --></strong></div>
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l,sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:17px;margin-top:5px;"><!-- Instance=
BeginEditable name=3D"Links1 Title" --><a style=3D"color:#002563;" href=3D"=
http://list.carnegieendowment.org/t/772959/13985564/63871/5/=
" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:#002563;">Carnegie Guide to the Sa=
udi Eleven</span></a><!-- InstanceEndEditable --><span style=3D"font-size:1=
1px;"><!-- InstanceBeginEditable name=3D"Links1 DocType" -->&nbsp;<br />
(interactive site, September 7)<!-- InstanceEndEditable --></span></div>
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ial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:17px;margin-top:10px;"><!-- Insta=
nceBeginEditable name=3D"Links1 TitleB" --><a style=3D"color:#002563;" href=
=3D"=
http://list.carnegieendowment.org/t/772959/13985564/63930/6/=
" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:#002563;">U.S.-Saudi Relations in =
the Shadow of the Arab Spring</span></a><!-- InstanceEndEditable --><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11px;"><!-- InstanceBeginEditable name=3D"Links1 DocTypeB=
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font-size:13px;line-height:16px;margin-left:20px;margin-right:20px;margin-t=
op:0"><!-- InstanceBeginEditable name=3D"LedeText" -->Fifteen of the ninete=
en al-Qaeda hijackers involved in the September 11 attacks were from Saudi =
Arabia. In the decade since 9/11, Riyadh has been credited as an invaluable=
 partner to Washington in fighting global terror and as one of the world=E2=
=80=99s best success stories for how to defeat domestic terrorist activitie=
s through law enforcement, security and intelligence measures, education, a=
nd rehabilitation. Still, some Saudi nationals remain an important source o=
f funding for terrorist networks despite Riyadh=E2=80=99s efforts to crack =
down on illicit financing. <!-- InstanceEndEditable --></div>
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font-size:13px;line-height:16px;margin-left:20px;margin-right:20px;margin-t=
op:10px;"><!-- InstanceBeginEditable name=3D"LedeText2" -->In a new Q&amp;A=
, Christopher Boucek assesses the threat of terrorism coming out of Saudi A=
rabia ten years after 9/11. Boucek argues that Washington and Riyadh have e=
njoyed a successful relationship in combating global terror and Saudi Arabi=
a is remarkably effective in containing the terrorist threat=E2=80=94but if=
 the country loses focus on this priority, terrorism could come back with a=
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                 <strong><a name=3D"1" id=3D"1"></a>What is Saudi Arabia=E2=
=80=99s connection to global terror?  </strong><br/><br/>
           Saudi Arabia is an important location for funding global terrori=
st activity and it also serves as the spiritual home of al-Qaeda. Since 200=
3, when terrorism came back to Saudi Arabia=E2=80=94most notably with the M=
ay bombings of residential compounds housing foreigners in Riyadh=E2=80=94a=
nd the Saudi authorities started taking the problem seriously, the country =
has made huge efforts to crack down on terrorism. Right now, there are no m=
ajor terrorist operatives or cells openly operating in Saudi Arabia=E2=80=
=94but funding remains the big problem today.=20


<br/>
<br/>
=20
                 <strong><a name=3D"2" id=3D"2"></a>To what extent are Saud=
is funding terror and what has the government done to limit financing? </st=
rong><br/>=20
                 <br/>
         With the Hajj attracting millions of Muslims every year to Mecca, =
there are ample opportunities to make connections and fundraise with people=
 from all over the world. It is relatively easy to get money for many thing=
s in Saudi Arabia=E2=80=94and there is certainly money to be had. And terro=
rist groups can receive cash (or other convertible instruments) from indivi=
duals and groups even today, because there are still people who believe in =
the actions of these groups.
<br/> <br/>
The government has done quite a bit to crack down on fundraising. Laws have=
 been implemented to curtail sending charitable money abroad outside govern=
ment channels. People are not allowed to fundraise in mosques or on the str=
eets, although such fundraising likely persists to some degree. There have =
also been educational and advertising campaigns letting people know that su=
ch money is often used for illicit activities=E2=80=94this has helped incre=
ase awareness about the methods terror groups use to raise funds.
<br />
<br />
A fatwa was also issued saying that raising money for terrorism is the same=
 as being a terrorist. And many prominent religious officials have condemne=
d terrorism and worked hard to undermine support for terrorism and counter =
the intellectual or ideological justifications for terrorist activities. <b=
r />
<br />
But the real problem is that we are talking about mostly small amounts of m=
oney and often cash, so it is incredibly difficult to regulate and prevent.=
 Saudi Arabia is good at cracking down on terrorism, but the financing is i=
ncredibly hard to control. There are people who give money that gets divert=
ed to other purposes and groups that use similar methods to collect cash. <=
br />
<br />
And it=E2=80=99s important to remember that terrorist groups do not need la=
rge amounts of money to operate. Global terror is a cheap business to be in=
, so cutting funds to the point that it prevents terrorist acts is an uphil=
l battle. =20

<br/> <br/>
                 <strong><a name=3D"3" id=3D"3"></a>Where is terrorist fund=
ing from the kingdom going?</strong><br/>=20
                 <br/>
         Fundraising in Saudi Arabia is said to support both al-Qaeda-style=
 activity and Taliban-style activity=E2=80=94it is important to look at the=
 broad categories separately. Recognizing the domestic threat, Saudi Arabia=
 is more focused on ending fundraising for groups akin to al-Qaeda and less=
 aware of the extent of the problem of money going to other jihadi groups.=
=20
<br/> <br/>
Money coming out of Saudi Arabia reportedly goes to al-Qaeda in the Arabian=
 Peninsula (AQAP), al-Qaeda central, and its affiliated groups, including L=
ashkar-e-Taiba, the Pakistani militant group. Groups employ a variety of st=
rategies to receive donations and support. Potential funders are often show=
n videos on mobile phones of direct requests from terrorist leaders operati=
ng on the ground in Yemen or other countries, even if they do not personall=
y come to Saudi Arabia. And there have been instances where women have gath=
ered together to raise money=E2=80=94it=E2=80=99s not entirely clear if eve=
ryone who donated money knew where the money was actually headed or if they=
 believed it was for humanitarian or charity work.=20



<br/> <br/>
                 <strong><a name=3D"4" id=3D"4"></a>What more can be done t=
o shut down the flow of money?</strong><br/>=20
                 <br/>
          It should go without saying that there needs to be better interna=
tional cooperation to make it increasingly difficult to ship money abroad t=
o support terrorism, but it is very difficult to cut back on the informal m=
ethods. The world=E2=80=99s policymakers, bankers, and law enforcement offi=
cers are always going to be playing catch up on this stuff. =20
<br/> <br/>
Financing is important, but countries are not going to stop terrorism by cl=
amping down on the money. The money terrorists need is small. This all need=
s to be kept in perspective=E2=80=94terrorism financing should be contained=
, but it is not as important as the willingness of a government to go after=
 these guys.=20

=20

<br/> <br/>
                =20
                   <strong><a name=3D"5" id=3D"5"></a>Are there still terro=
rists operating inside Saudi Arabia?  </strong><br/>=20
                   <br/>
         There are no high-level operators from al-Qaeda or similar outfits=
 at large in Saudi Arabia today. The most-wanted terrorists are no longer i=
nside the country, but if Riyadh were to ease up on the pressure being appl=
ied on violent extremism and terrorism, there is a real possibility that vi=
olence could return. Sympathy for their cause remains inside the country. =
=20
<br />
<br />
The number of people behind bars suspected of having terrorist ties fluctua=
tes. Before 9/11, there were 192 prisoners in Saudi Arabia detained for ter=
rorism and related allegations. But after terrorist activity came to Saudi =
soil with a vengeance in 2003, there were over 11,000 people interrogated a=
nd eventually set free. There are slightly less than 6,000 people now being=
 held, including approximately 1,600 serving sentences. =20
<br />
<br />
With renewed urgency in fighting terrorism, Saudi authorities built a whole=
 new series of special security prisons=E2=80=94and they are reportedly ful=
l today. There have been regular, large batches of arrests of al-Qaeda-affi=
liated figures in the last several years.=20
<br />
<br />
There are of course still Saudis involved in terrorism=E2=80=94they just ar=
e not in the country. Saudis made up the largest group operating in al-Qaed=
a training camps in Afghanistan before 9/11 and some are still active abroa=
d. A significant number of Saudi nationals are believed to be in Yemen oper=
ating with AQAP.
<br />
<br />



 <strong><a name=3D"6" id=3D"6"></a>How successful is Saudi Arabia=E2=80=99=
s counterterrorism program? Is terrorism and terrorism financing a priority=
 for the Saudi government?  </strong><br/>=20
                   <br/>
               Saudi Arabia has made combating terrorism a major priority. =
Terrorism is one of the biggest threats that Riyadh faces. Before 2003, the=
 effectiveness of Riyadh=E2=80=99s counterterrorism activities was question=
able at best. But in response to the rising levels of violence in the count=
ry in 2003 through 2006, the government did a good job of clamping down.=20
<br />
<br />
There are not too many countries that have successfully dismantled and muzz=
led terrorism like Saudi Arabia has done. The government dedicated a great =
deal of money to the issue and employed both hard-security methods and soft=
er tactics. This included arrests, better intelligence, amnesties, and coun=
ter-radicalization programs, as well as efforts by the governing and religi=
ous establishments to mobilize the population against terrorist activities.=
 <br />
<br />
Every six to eight months, the Ministry of the Interior will announce a ser=
ies of arrests and accuse the suspects of targeting members of the royal fa=
mily, foreigners, energy infrastructure, and moderate clerics, but release =
limited details. This helps communicate to the public that homegrown terror=
ism is still a serious, ongoing threat despite the lack of a successful, hi=
gh-profile attack in recent years. <br />
<br />
Early on, however, Saudi Arabia realized that it did not want to make the s=
ame mistakes that Egypt and Syria made when too many people were arrested. =
Massive, unaccountable arrests run the risk that family members will be rad=
icalized. Riyadh realized that it needed to reduce the impact of arrests an=
d prove to the population that it was working to take care of them. The gov=
ernment and religious authorities worked to drive a wedge between extremist=
s and the public by proving that extremists are not acting in the populatio=
n=E2=80=99s best interests and funded disengagement and rehabilitation prog=
rams. Riyadh put all kinds of resources and money into this and has enjoyed=
 some success, but the sheer amount of financial backing, resources, and to=
p-level focus makes the programs hard to emulate in different countries.=20
<br />
<br />


<strong><a name=3D"7" id=3D"7"></a>Who are on Saudi Arabia=E2=80=99s list o=
f the most wanted terrorism suspects?   </strong><br/>=20
                   <br/>Saudi Arabia released the names of 85 of its most w=
anted terrorists in February 2009, shortly after AQAP was created with the =
merger of the Saudi and Yemeni al-Qaeda affiliates. The list includes 83 Sa=
udi nationals and two Yemenis and 66 are still at large today. It includes =
the terrorists operating outside of Saudi Arabia that Riyadh is most intere=
sted in getting back. This January, Saudi authorities named 47 additional a=
lleged terrorists in a new most wanted list.=20
 <br />
<br />
Those identified include people who are trained in weapons, known to be tar=
geting energy infrastructure, connected to al-Qaeda cells active in Lebanon=
, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, or Iran (there have been fears that Iran has official=
ly protected some of them), and potentially involved in plots or plans to a=
ttack Saudi Arabia. When you start to analyze the groups of networks that t=
hese men are connected to, it quickly makes sense as to why they are more i=
mportant than just the individuals by themselves. =20
 <br />
<br />
Eleven of the terrorists named in 2009 had been released from the detention=
 facility at Guant=C3=A1namo  Bay and then attended a Saudi rehabilitation =
program for former militants and extremists. The so-called Saudi Eleven sub=
sequently fled the country in waves and rejoined terrorist groups abroad.
 <br />
<br />
A new interactive site=E2=80=94<a href=3D"=
http://list.carnegieendowment.org/t/772959/13985564/63871/8/=
">The Saudi Eleven</a>=E2=80=94 explores the people, places, and organizati=
ons that impacted each man=E2=80=99s radicalization and, for some, their ul=
timate renouncement of radical, violent extremism. By representing relation=
ships visually, shared patterns of behavior become apparent.
 <br />
<br />

<strong><a name=3D"8" id=3D"8"></a>Why is it important to understand the co=
nnections among terrorists? </strong><br />
<br />
Only by understanding the connections between all actors tied to global ter=
rorism can effective strategies be developed to combat the threat. To fight=
 terrorism, it is essential to look at the social networks that tie jihadis=
t groups together. A better understanding of where people come from, their =
life experiences, and their links to other individuals help countries come =
up with tools to prevent terrorism in the first place and better methods fo=
r containing the threat.  <br />
<br />
There is a tendency to look at the most notorious terrorists=E2=80=94those =
with the highest media profile or the loudest rhetoric=E2=80=94and target t=
hem, but this is not enough and does not automatically deal with the real p=
roblem. Countries can dismantle terrorist outfits by taking apart the leade=
rship, but this does not make the movement from which radicalism flourishes=
 go away. Losing leaders weakens al-Qaeda and it degrades its capacity, but=
 not necessarily the threat of terrorism. Dealing with the manifestations a=
nd not the cause means that the fight on terrorism is unwinnable. The world=
 is just treading water. <br />
<br />
If you want to dismantle networks, you need to take them apart where they c=
ome together. Terrorist groups do not operate like corporations. They are m=
ore amorphous. What ties them together is not geography or socioeconomics, =
but shared world views. Violence is not an end to them, but a means to an e=
nd. As perverse as it sounds, many violent Islamists are people who believe=
 they are doing the right thing and believe that violence is how they have =
to achieve what is best. It is black and white in their minds. <br />
<br />
This means that counterterrorism methods need to be prioritized. More focus=
 and more resources need to be directed to the troublesome areas (neighborh=
oods, prisons, schools, etc.) that have radicalized people. If there are li=
mited counterterrorism resources=E2=80=94and there are=E2=80=94funds need t=
o find the perfect balance between prevention and containment and direct ac=
tion. <br />
<br />
This is the only way to get ahead of terrorism.=20


<br />
<br />
<strong><a name=3D"9" id=3D"9"></a>What is Riyadh=E2=80=99s role in the fig=
ht against terrorism in Yemen? </strong><br />
<br />
In August 2009, AQAP, the al-Qaeda affiliate based in Yemen, tried to assas=
sinate Saudi Prince Mohammed bin Nayef, the head of Saudi Arabia=E2=80=99s =
antiterrorism efforts. It has been reported in the Saudi press that Prince =
Mohammed has survived four assassination attempts linked to Yemeni-based mi=
litants. So the situation in Yemen is personal for Saudi Arabia=E2=80=94Riy=
adh considers the terrorists in Yemen a major threat. <br />
<br />
Saudi Arabia is Yemen=E2=80=99s largest foreign aid donor=E2=80=94by far. R=
iyadh=E2=80=99s primary concern with Yemen is its stability and security, p=
articularly the Saudi nationals affiliated with AQAP hiding out in the coun=
try. Saudi Arabia is spending more money on counterterrorism training and i=
mproving intelligence collection. <br />
<br />
Saudi Arabia=E2=80=99s influence and interest in combating terrorists opera=
ting in its smaller neighbor mean that Riyadh has a leading role in reducin=
g the threat of terrorism coming out of Yemen. And the Saudis can do things=
 in Yemen that Americans cannot. Saudis tipped off U.S. officials to the bo=
mbs concealed inside cargo packages destined for the United States in Octob=
er 2010, demonstrating the good intelligence that Riyadh collects and share=
s with Washington. This averted what was likely to be a major attack. <br /=
>
<br />
<strong><a name=3D"10" id=3D"10"></a>How effectively has Saudi Arabia partn=
ered with the United States to combat terrorism since 9/11? </strong><br />
<br />
This is one of the better relationships in the world on counterterrorism. T=
he cooperation between Washington and Riyadh is strong and on the issue of =
terrorism the Saudis and Americans basically see eye to eye. There is also =
a regular exchange of information to help both countries prevent attacks. <=
br />
<br />
This was not the case for the first few years after 9/11, as Saudi Arabia d=
id not fully appreciate the problem. But when violence started in Saudi Ara=
bia in 2003, the relationship with the United States on terrorism improved =
markedly and quickly grew strong. Now there are programs to improve the sec=
urity of Saudi=E2=80=99s energy infrastructure, training, officials share d=
atabases, photos, fingerprints, etc., and there is a great deal of cooperat=
ion on Yemen where there are Saudis hiding out and operating with AQAP.  <b=
r />
<br />
The relationship today shows how two governments can cooperate. If every co=
untry was willing to cooperate like Saudi Arabia, the world would be a much=
 safer place. There are two things that are needed to fight terrorism=E2=80=
=94political will and capacity. Saudi Arabia has demonstrated both. Other c=
ountries haven=E2=80=99t. Saudi Arabia recognized that it was at risk of te=
rrorism and then focused a great deal of attention on the problem.  <br />
<br />
<strong><a name=3D"11" id=3D"11"></a>Will heightened tensions between the U=
nited States and Saudi Arabia amid the Arab awakening compromise cooperatio=
n on terrorism? </strong><br />
<br />
No. This is the key issue that Washington and Riyadh see eye to eye on. It =
is considered an existential threat to Saudi Arabia and it remains the conc=
ern the United States cares most about. Terrorism is too important and noth=
ing is going to change the high level of cooperation. <br />
<br />
The relationship between the United States and Saudi Arabia is not going to=
 fundamentally change in the face of unrest and change across the Arab worl=
d. Relations will look different on the outside, but the substance will sta=
y the same. The two need each other and leaders from both countries recogni=
ze the importance of the relationship.            <!-- InstanceEndEditable =
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            <p style=3D"color:#022664;font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-siz=
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mbines in-depth local knowledge with incisive comparative analysis to exami=
ne economic, socio-political, and strategic interests in the Arab world. Th=
rough detailed country studies and the exploration of key cross-cutting the=
mes, the Carnegie Middle East Program, in coordination with the <a style=3D=
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abic that are deeply informed by knowledge and views from the region. The C=
arnegie Middle East Program has special expertise in political reform and I=
slamist participation in pluralistic politics throughout the region. The pr=
ogram produces the <a style=3D"color:#022664;font-weight:bold" target=3D"_b=
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            <p style=3D"color:#022664;font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:17px;margin-left:19px;margin-bottom:10px;margin-top:20px;">About the Carn=
egie Endowment for International Peace</p>
            <p style=3D"color:#022664;font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:11px;margin-left:20px;margin-right:20px;margin-bottom:10px;margin-top:10p=
x;"> The <a style=3D"color:#022664;font-weight:bold" target=3D"_blank" href=
=3D"=
http://list.carnegieendowment.org/t/772959/13985564/55121/31/=
"><span style=3D"color:#022664;font-weight:bold;">Carnegie Endowment for In=
ternational Peace</span></a> is a private, nonprofit organization dedicated=
 to advancing cooperation between nations and promoting active internationa=
l engagement by the United States. Founded in 1910, its work is nonpartisan=
 and dedicated to achieving practical results.<br />
<br />
As it celebrates its Centennial, the Carnegie Endowment is pioneering the f=
irst global think tank, with offices now in <a style=3D"color:#022664;font-=
weight:bold" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"=
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 style=3D"color:#022664;font-weight:bold" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"=
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http://list.carnegieendowment.org/t/772959/13985564/49171/36/=
"><span style=3D"color:#022664;font-weight:bold;">Brussels</span></a>. Thes=
e five locations include the centers of world governance and the places who=
se political evolution and international policies will most determine the n=
ear-term possibilities for international peace and economic advance. <br />
              <br />
          <em>The Carnegie Endowment does not take institutional positions =
on public policy issues; the views represented herein are the author's own =
and do not necessarily reflect the views of the Endowment, its staff, or it=
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