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### Viewing cable 04HOCHIMINHCITY76, CIRFDEL SURVEYS RELIGIOUS FREEDOM IN VIETNAM: CATHOLICS

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Reference ID | Created | Released | Classification | Origin
--- | --- | --- | --- | ---
04HOCHIMINHCITY76 | 2004-01-28 00:34 | 2011-08-25 00:00 | UNCLASSIFIED//FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY | Consulate Ho Chi Minh City

`

    This record is a partial extract of the original cable. The full text of the original cable is not available.

` `

    UNCLAS SECTION 01 OF 04 HO CHI MINH CITY 000076

    SIPDIS

    SENSITIVE

    DEPARTMENT FOR EAP/BCLTV, DRL/IRF, H

    ¶E. O. 12958: N/A
    TAGS: PHUM SOCI PREL PGOV OTRA KIRF VM RELFREE HUMANR
    SUBJECT: CIRFDEL SURVEYS RELIGIOUS FREEDOM IN VIETNAM:  CATHOLICS
    AND UBCV BUDDHISTS IN HUE

    Summary
    -------
    ¶1. (U) Dr. Scott Flipse, senior policy analyst at the U.S.
    Commission on International Religious Freedom (USCIRF) traveled
    through Hanoi, Hue, the Central Highlands, and Ho Chi Minh City on
    an official fact-finding mission from January 7-16.  He was joined
    by Mr. George Phillips, from the office of Rep. Chris Smith (R-
    NJ), and Ms. Hannah Royal, from the office of Senator Sam
    Brownback (R-KS), who traveled in their personal capacities under
    the sponsorship of a U.S.-based NGO, the Committee for Religious
    Freedom in Vietnam, which was represented on this trip by
    Vietnamese-American Catholic priest Tam Tran.  Septels report on
    their meetings in Hanoi, the Central Highlands and HCMC.

    ¶2. (SBU) While in Hue on January 10, the CIRFDEL held official
    discussions with the Chairman of the Provincial People's Committee
    and the Archbishop of the Hue Archdiocese.  The delegation
    declined a number of other official appointments suggested by the
    People's Committee in favor of arranging their own meeting with
    the highest-ranking Buddhist monk of the local branch of the
    outlawed UBCV.  They were less successful in attempts to meet
    secretly with a local dissident Catholic priest at his home, where

    SIPDIS
    they were turned away close to midnight by a large security
    detail.  The meetings produced mixed messages on the situation for
    the large Catholic and Buddhist communities in the province (there
    are very few Protestants in Hue).  While their private meetings
    confirmed the very real problems faced by the underground Buddhist
    church and a small number of Catholic dissidents, the official
    meetings sounded a much more positive note on the overall freedom
    to practice religion in Thue Thien-Hue.

    People's Committee Cites Overall Improvements, but Slams
    Dissenters
    --------------------------------------------- ---------------------
    -
    ¶3. (SBU) In their meeting with Chairman Nguyen Van Me of the Thua
    Thien-Hue Provincial People's Committee, the CIRFDEL outlined the
    potential for the human rights/religious freedom situation in
    Vietnam to slow down an otherwise growing bilateral relationship
    with the U.S.  Citing the weight of the evidence from a large
    number of similar complaints as proof that the situation was
    deteriorating, they affirmed they were seeking nothing more than
    for Vietnam to adhere to the standards it had already acceded to
    in various international agreements and lift the restrictions on
    religious practice and organization.  Raising the continued
    harassment of local monks from the banned Unified Buddhist Church
    of Vietnam (UBCV), they questioned what threat a small group of
    elderly monks could pose to Vietnam's national security.  Noting
    that central government officials in Hanoi blamed local officials
    for any unintended violations of Vietnam's constitutional
    protections of religious freedom, they asked Chairman Me for his
    views on the situation in Hue.

    ¶4. (SBU) Chairman Me hoped that the United States would see the
    human rights/religious freedom issue in Vietnam through a wider
    and more culturally sensitive lens, and stressed that American
    values, unlike American products, could not be exported wholesale
    without regard to the cultural values of the receiving state.  He
    also focused heavily on the importance of preserving national
    unity and social stability, accusing a small group associated with
    the former southern regime of using religion to regain power.
    Drawing frequently on the legacy of the war and the misdeeds of
    his former adversaries, the Chairman stressed that the GVN had
    chosen not to punish their old foes in the interest of national
    reconciliation, the latest example of which was the visa just
    issued to former Republic of Vietnam Prime Minister and later Vice
    President Nguyen Cao Ky to celebrate Tet with family and friends
    in his homeland for the first time in almost 30 years.  The
    Chairman said he was well aware of the regular Internet traffic
    reporting on alleged violations of human rights/religious freedom
    from both inside and outside the country, but pointed to greater
    economic freedom and the GVN's focus on improving living
    conditions overall as proof of the government's good intentions.

    ¶5. (SBU) Falling back on statistics to demonstrate what he
    described as an ever improving religious freedom situation, he
    said there were currently 500 Buddhist monks and nearly as many
    pagodas in Hue, a number of which had been recently constructed or
    renovated to serve the province's 440,000 Buddhists (nearly 50
    percent of the population).  The Hue Institute of Buddhism,
    established just five years ago, had trained over 500 monks and
    scholars, some of whom had been sent overseas for post-graduate
    study.  The Buddhists were able to publish religious materials and
    organize charitable activities, such as kindergartens for orphans
    and health care facilities for the poor.  The Chairman described
    similar developments for the province's 55,000 Catholics.  Nearly
    all of Hue's 115 churches -- staffed by 110 priests and hundreds
    of lay workers -- had been rebuilt since the war, and the Hue
    seminary was set shortly to receive 40 new students for its sixth
    incoming class.  Like the Buddhists, the Catholics were able to
    operate orphanages and health centers for the disabled and poor.

    ¶6. (SBU) Returning to the war legacy and national reconciliation,
    Chairman Me stated repeatedly that the GVN did not want to arrest
    religious leaders, but was forced to do so when they flagrantly
    violated Vietnam's laws.  Even then, he said, they arrested only
    the "soldiers," and only after giving them numerous chances to
    cease their political activities.  He noted that the UBCV's own
    leadership had chosen to integrate with the Vietnam Buddhist
    Sangha (VBS) -- an organization that now represented 99 percent of
    the country's Buddhists -- in 1981.  Dismissing the notion of the
    UBCV as a separate entity, he questioned why the GVN should allow
    a few dissident monks to break away and form an independent church
    when they represented only troublemakers waving the flag of the
    former regime from overseas.  Softening his stance just a bit, he
    observed that the UBCV would not have had any problems if they had
    just operated quietly, without openly declaring their hostility
    and opposition to the government.  Citing the example of Le Quang
    Liem -- a former Hoa Hao militia leader during the war and now a
    vocal critic of the government recognized Hoa Hao religious
    organization -- he claimed that supporters of the old regime had
    simply replaced their military uniforms with clerical robes to
    continue the fight against the current government under the guise
    of religion.

    ¶7. (SBU) Chairman Me made it quite clear that individuals who used
    the cloak of religion to fight against the government would not be
    tolerated.  He noted that dissident Catholic priest Thaddeus
    Nguyen Van Ly was in prison because he had ignored repeated
    warnings to cease his political activities, not for practicing his
    faith.  He criticized the delegation for attempting to visit
    Father Ly's associate, Father Phan Van Loi, the previous evening,
    and asked why they would want to meet with an underling if they
    had already met with Father Ly in Hanoi.  Asked directly if he
    could give his approval for the delegation to meet with him later
    in the day, he claimed not to even know where Father Loi lived,
    (despite the fact that close to 20 security officials were posted
    outside his home the previous evening when the delegation stopped
    by unannounced).  He did, however, seem to know enough about the
    case to raise doubts as to whether Father Loi had ever been
    ordained as a priest (he was apparently ordained in secret in a
    northern diocese and did not have the Church's permission to serve
    as a priest in Hue).  Noting that Father Loi represented no one
    but himself, he directed the delegation to the materials the
    dissident priest had himself placed on the Internet for insight
    into why his movements might currently be restricted.

    ¶8. (SBU) Chairman Me quickly dismissed the question of confiscated
    Catholic properties in the province as one of eminent domain,
    although he admitted that some land had been redistributed
    immediately after the war.  Regarding the Shrine of Our Lady of
    Perpetual Help, claimed by the Redemptorist Order, he said the
    former Archbishop of Hue had donated the property to the
    government.  He attributed more recent allegations of government
    intrusion on the grounds of the Thien An Benedictine Monastery and
    the Ke Sung Church to the routine development of necessary
    infrastructure projects (although he made sure to point out that
    the grounds around Thien An had been confiscated originally due to
    their use by former South Vietnamese President Diem as a base for
    anti-communist activities).  Other Catholic properties had been
    turned into much needed schools and health care facilities.

    Hue Archbishop Guarded but Mostly Positive
    ------------------------------------------
    ¶9. (SBU) Sounding a relatively more positive tone, Hue Archbishop
    Nguyen Nhu The characterized the fundamental issue as conflicting
    definitions of religious freedom.  While the government viewed
    freedom to worship as the overriding goal, the Catholic Church saw
    it as encompassing much more.  He hoped the views of the two sides
    would merge over time.  He already believed that things were
    getting better every year, and hoped that the international
    community would advocate for his church in a sensitive way that
    respected the Asian mentality.  Anything more direct would be
    counterproductive to the goals of the Church.  While they still
    needed government approval to ordain priests, those approvals were
    getting easier to obtain, and he had personally ordained 53
    priests in his 10 years at the Archdiocese.  The seminary,
    meanwhile, was able to draw seminarians from the Archdiocese of
    Hue, Danang, and Kontum.

    ¶10. (SBU) Describing the Father Ly case as complicated, he said
    that he had often counseled the priest on his behavior and even
    worked out an agreement to move him to a new parish without any
    prodding from the government.  Unfortunately, Father Ly had
    continued his activities at the new parish, despite the
    Archbishop's frequent warnings that priests should not be involved
    in politics.  The Archbishop noted that he had sent a delegation
    of clergy and lay workers to visit Father Ly after his arrest and
    that he had found God in prison.  He knew that Father Loi had at
    one time been under government restrictions after Father Ly's
    arrest in April 2001, but thought the recent presence of security
    agents outside his home the previous night might have been related
    to the fact that police knew the delegation was in town.  He
    stated plainly that Father Loi had no canonical relationship with
    the Hue Archdiocese and had never sought his permission to join.
    (Note:  According to the CIRFDEL's unofficial interpreter, local
    officials had once told Father Loi that he could become part of
    the Hue Archdiocese if he renounced Father Ly.  The interpreter
    also described Father Loi as one of four Catholic priests to call
    for the complete overthrow of the GVN.  End note.)

    ¶11. (SBU) The Archbishop said they hadn't asked for the return of
    any confiscated properties because government limitations on
    charitable works left them with little use for the old hospitals
    and schools.  He claimed not to know the status of the Thien An
    property, but said the monks were in dialogue with the government
    on the issue.  He didn't think the monks wanted all of the
    original 107 hectares back -- just enough for a buffer zone to
    maintain a spiritual environment.  He was even less sure of the
    status of the Redemptorist property, although he thought the
    government had already built a clinic on the site.  He had heard
    of a physical altercation involving the police and several church
    workers trying to stop road construction outside the Ke Sung
    Church, but didn't think it was very serious.  Looking at the case
    from a legal standpoint, he said the Church was fine with building
    a new road if it was open to the general public and didn't affect
    the spiritual environment.  Nevertheless, the Church had also
    prepared a proposal for an alternative road to be funded by the
    Archdiocese.  As for the Marian Shrine at La Vang -- a property
    located outside the provincial border in neighboring Quang Tri
    Province, but within his Archdiocese -- the Archbishop said that
    while there had been complete freedom for pilgrims over the last
    five to six years, the local district People's Committee still
    refused to recognize the Church's ownership, despite recognition
    at the provincial level.  Overall, he thought relations were
    better with Thua Thien-Hue than with Quang Tri.

    UBCV Monks Resist GVN Control
    -----------------------------
    ¶12. (SBU) The CIRFDEL made an unannounced stop at Tu Hieu Pagoda
    to visit with Thich Thien Hanh, leader of the influential Hue
    branch of the UBCV.  As with the attempted visit to Father Loi,
    the local authorities seemed to know the delegation was planning
    to visit, and two individuals loitering outside the premises
    entered the monk's chamber bearing wrapped Tet gifts just ahead of
    the delegation.  Those apparent security agents, and another two
    or three who arrived as the meeting began, eavesdropped visibly
    from just inside the door for the first 20 minutes, until Thich
    Hien Hanh rose from his chair and ushered them out the door.
    Although he whispered quite a bit, Thich Hien Hanh did not seem
    uncomfortable speaking in the presence of security officials.  He
    told the group he was feeling well after his hunger strike in late
    October, but was not allowed to leave the pagoda without
    permission.  He had been able to send a monk to visit Thich Huyen
    Quang in Quy Nhon five days earlier and confirmed that the UBCV
    Patriarch's health was good and he was getting adequate medical
    attention.  Unfortunately, there was a large police presence at
    his pagoda, and he appeared to be living under the threat that he
    would be moved to a pagoda near Nha Trang if he did anything to
    attract attention.  For that reason, Thich Thien Hanh asked that
    USG officials refrain from attempting to visit the Patriarch for
    the time being.  The Hue Buddhist leader also acknowledged that he
    was in telephone contact with UBCV Deputy Thich Quang Do,
    currently under unofficial pagoda detention in HCMC, and that he
    was also in reasonably good health.

    ¶13. (SBU) Thich Thien Hanh blamed the problems of the UBCV on the
    fact that the communists simply didn't like religion and wanted to
    eliminate groups it could not control, but vowed that the UBCV
    would never submit to GVN influence.  He attributed the GVN's
    seemingly schizophrenic treatment of the UBCV, from the spring
    2003 releases of the UBCV's top leadership to the autumn 2003
    crackdown, to a split within the GVN and the Party over how to
    deal with the religious issue.  Under the current restrictions, it
    was difficult to groom young leaders and communicate the basic
    message to UBCV followers, especially when believers could be
    punished simply for visiting monks like him.  Fortunately, he was
    able to maintain contact with the outside world, including to the
    International Buddhist Information Bureau in Paris, through
    Internet hookups hidden inside the pagoda.  He hoped foreign
    governments would use official development assistance to pressure
    the GVN and the Communist Party -- the real beneficiaries of such
    aid -- to change their policies, despite the economic impact on
    the general populace.  The poor, he said, would suffer anyway.

    ¶14. (U) The delegation did not have an opportunity to clear this
    cable before leaving Post.
    YAMAUCHI

`