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### Viewing cable 08WELLINGTON35, NEW ZEALAND: UNDER SECRETARY DOBRIANSKY'S JANUARY

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Reference ID | Created | Released | Classification | Origin
--- | --- | --- | --- | ---
08WELLINGTON35 | 2008-02-07 03:03 | 2011-04-28 00:12 | CONFIDENTIAL | Embassy Wellington

`

    VZCZCXYZ0000
    PP RUEHWEB

    DE RUEHWL #0035/01 0380353
    ZNY CCCCC ZZH
    P 070353Z FEB 08
    FM AMEMBASSY WELLINGTON
    TO RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHDC PRIORITY 5047
    INFO RUEHBJ/AMEMBASSY BEIJING 0391
    RUEHBS/AMEMBASSY BRUSSELS 0066
    RUEHBY/AMEMBASSY CANBERRA 5092
    RUEHKA/AMEMBASSY DHAKA 0023
    RUEHBUL/AMEMBASSY KABUL 0061
    RUEHKL/AMEMBASSY KUALA LUMPUR 0189
    RUEHLO/AMEMBASSY LONDON 0186
    RUEHNE/AMEMBASSY NEW DELHI 0159
    RUEHKO/AMEMBASSY TOKYO 0692
    RUEAIIA/CIA WASHINGTON DC
    RHEHAAA/NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL WASHDC
    RHMFISS/DEPT OF ENERGY WASHINGTON DC

` `

    C O N F I D E N T I A L WELLINGTON 000035

    SIPDIS

    SIPDIS

    DOE FOR A/S KARSNER
    NSC FOR K. FRASER
    BRUSSELS FOR USEU

    E.O. 12958: DECL: 01/17/2028
    TAGS: OVIP PREL PGOV SENV NZ AY AF BM FJ UK IN MY
    SUBJECT: NEW ZEALAND:  UNDER SECRETARY DOBRIANSKY'S JANUARY
    15 MEETING WITH PRIME MINISTER CLARK

    Classified By: Consul General John Desrocher for reasons 1.5 (b)
    and (d).

    This message was drafted by ConGen Auckland and approved by
    Embassy Wellington.

    ¶1.  (C)  Summary.  New Zealand PM Clark believes the
    indifference of most Japanese to whaling leaves the most
    extreme whaling advocates free to drive GOJ policy.  Clark
    opposes Antarctic tourism and she is pleased with her
    government's efforts to get developing economies to accept
    some responsibility for reducing greenhouse gases.  Clark
    also told Under Secretary Dobriansky she is disturbed by
    Burma's neighbors' attitudes towards that government's
    repression, as well as by European unwillingness to put
    strong conditions on its aid to Fiji.  Clark reported that
    the U.K. believes a dual-track approach is necessary to
    succeed in Afghanistan.  Clark and Dobriansky discussed their
    efforts to promote interfaith dialogue as well as the
    Secretary's possible visit to New Zealand.  End summary.

    SIPDIS

    -----------------
    Antarctic Tourism
    -----------------

    ¶2.  (C)  Prime Minister Clark opened her meeting with Under
    Secretary Dobriansky by describing her concern about tourism

    SIPDIS
    at the bottom of the world.  Clark said that she "had always
    been down on tourism" in the Antarctic and adjacent waters,
    citing its harm to the area's fragile environment and the
    danger to tourists from the challenging climate and sea
    conditions.  Clark noted that tourism numbers were up,
    particularly in the areas claimed by Chile and Argentina.
    Dobriansky emphasized the U.S. desire to work with New
    Zealand on the problem, and suggested the appropriate
    commission should consider the imposition of binding rules
    governing tourism.

    -------
    Whaling
    -------

    ¶3.  (C) Clark called attention to the controversy over
    Japanese whaling and expressed appreciation for the "staunch"
    attitude of the U.S.  Clark noted that, this season, Japanese
    whalers were far from New Zealand in Australia's Antarctic
    waters, a vast area very difficult to patrol.  Clark argued
    that Japan will relent on whaling only when the attitude of
    the Japanese public changes.  Most Japanese are indifferent
    to whaling, she said, leaving the most adamant proponents
    free to drive GOJ policy.

    ¶4.  (C) Dobriansky replied that she has met with New
    Zealand's International Whaling Commission representative Sir
    Geoffrey Palmer to consider next steps.  The big challenge,
    Dobriansky explained, was "salvaging the Commission" and
    dealing more effectively with Japan.  With regards to the
    latter, Dobriansky noted she would sit down with USG's Japan
    experts to plot out a strategy to be shared with partners
    like NZ, Australia and the U.K.  Regarding the IWC, Clark
    noted that she has found Malaysia traditionally difficult
    but, in recent conversations, Malaysian Prime Minister Badawi
    has sounded more cooperative.

    --------------
    Climate Change
    --------------

    ¶5.  (C) Dobriansky expressed satisfaction with the outcome of
    the Bali Climate Change Conference, particularly the
    commitment of developing countries to contribute to efforts
    to reduce greenhouse gases (GHG).  She promised that the U.S.
    would remain active in climate change negotiations as well as
    in its own major emerging economies program.  Clark
    highlighted her own efforts to "get good statements" on
    climate change from major international meetings in the run
    up to Bali, such as Asian regional meetings (APEC, ASEAN) and
    Commonwealth meetings, in order to draw developing countries
    like India towards GHG commitments.  Clark and Dobriansky
    agreed that a key argument to make to developing countries
    like India is that efforts to reduce GHG offer poor countries
    an opportunity to make technological leaps over the dirty
    technology that fueled much of the developed world's economic
    growth.

    ¶6.  (C) Energy A/S Karsner described U.S. efforts to tackle
    climate change, citing a USD one billion investment this year
    to produce cellulose ethanol and reduce tailpipe emissions
    from cars by up to 87%.  The U.S. was working with smaller
    developed countries like Sweden and Iceland on GHG reduction
    programs that, if successful, could be scaled up and
    implemented in large economies like the U.S.  Karsner shared
    his desire to "green" our stations in Antarctica, both to
    protect the environment and to reduce costs.  He noted that
    it costs more to deliver fossil fuels to the Antarctic
    stations than to anywhere else on earth and that the U.S.
    wants to work with NZ and others to meet the stations' energy
    needs more efficiently.  Similarly, the U.S. was interested
    in working with NZ in the Pacific on community-scale
    integrated reduction programs that would help reduce
    emissions in very small economies, like the Pacific islands.

    --------------------------------
    Emissions Efforts in New Zealand
    --------------------------------

    ¶7.  (C) Dobriansky praised Clark's initiative to ensure that
    90% of New Zealand's energy needs are met by renewable
    sources.  Clark noted that New Zealand already gets
    two-thirds of its energy from such sources and can make up
    the rest with more wind, geothermal and hydro power.  Banning
    new fossil fuel-powered energy generation projects will force
    the country to find alternatives, Clark explained.

    ¶8.  (C) New Zealand faced particular pressure to be green,
    Clark continued.  "We must put substance into the green
    slogan," Clark said, if NZ is to push back successfully
    against misguided popular concerns about food miles and
    tourists' carbon footprints.  Clark added that agriculture
    and tourism form the basis of NZ's economy and must be, and
    must be perceived to be, environmentally-friendly.

    ¶9.  (C) On the Secretary's behalf, Dobriansky invited Clark
    to the Washington International Renewable Energy Conference
    (WIREC) in March.  Dobriansky and Karsner pointed out the
    strong interest in the conference from German Chancellor
    Merkel and the Swedish premier.

    -----------------
    Secretary's Visit

    SIPDIS
    -----------------

    ¶10.  (C)  Clark expressed appreciation for Dobriansky's
    visit, noting that she was the most senior administration
    official to visit New Zealand in quite some time.  Clark said
    that she was looking forward to a possible visit from the
    Secretary, but understood the need to avoid discussing the

    SIPDIS
    visit publicly until it was officially agreed and the details
    were settled.  Dobriansky promised to pass in Clark's
    interest to the Secretary and the Charge noted that the
    Embassy and Department were working with MFAT on a possible
    program.

    -----
    Burma
    -----

    ¶11.  (C) Dobriansky thanked Clark for her personal
    involvement on Burma, prompting Clark to recall her role as
    the "bad fairy" at a recent ASEAN lunch at which she, to the
    consternation of Burma's neighbors and while seated directly
    across from her Burmese counterpart, condemned the junta's

    human rights violations.  China, India and ASEAN "need to
    stand up," Clark continued, explaining that she had recently
    told the Chinese premier that it was time for the PRC to take
    a strong stand on Burma just as it had done on North Korea.
    Clark added that she also raised the issue with her Indian
    counterpart and described the Indian attitude as
    "reprehensible."

    ----
    Fiji
    ----

    ¶12.  (C) Clark complained that, while the U.S. has been very
    supportive of NZ's position on Fiji, the Europeans are "not
    helpful."  She cited European attitudes at the time of the
    Pacific Islands Forum (PIF).  PIF members were ready to
    recommend that a non-military interim leader be appointed,
    but the EU declined to condition its aid on that step and the
    idea faded.  Now, Clark added, New Zealand is "brainstorming
    to find a path around Bainimarama," who can be rigid.  "There
    are others in Fiji to engage," Clark said.

    -----------
    Afghanistan
    -----------

    ¶13.  (C) Clark reported that, during her just-completed visit
    to London, PM Brown pushed for a dual-track approach to
    Afghanistan and expressed regret over the Afghan Government's
    recent expulsion of two European diplomats accused of having
    talks with Taleban leaders.  Her U.K. interlocutors, she
    said, "were surprised by how many Taleban leaders want to
    talk."

    -------------------
    Interfaith Dialogue
    -------------------

    ¶14.  (C)  After Dobriansky reiterated the President's
    commitment to resolve the Israeli-Palestinian dispute by the
    end of his administration, Clark recalled her own efforts to
    promote interfaith dialogue.  Dean Pittman referenced the
    State Department's initiative in that regard, cautioning that
    such efforts by governments "need to be subtle."  It is a
    particular challenge for the U.S., Pittman added, because any
    such initiative from Washington tend to be viewed with
    suspicion by the intended audience.  Dobriansky explained
    that reaching out to Muslim youth was particularly important.
     Clark agreed, noting with regret the success that extremists
    have had using the Internet to recruit young people.

    ------------
    Participants
    ------------

    ¶15.  (SBU)

    New Zealand:
    Prime Minister Helen Clark
    Deputy Secretary Carolyn Forsyth, Ministry of Foreign Affairs
    and Trade (MFAT)
    Andrea Smith, Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet
    Justin Fepulea'i, MFAT

    U.S.:
    U/S Paula Dobriansky
    A/S Andrew Karsner, DOE
    David Keegan, Charge d'Affaires
    Dean Pittman, Policy Planning
    John Desrocher, Consul General (notetaker)
    MCCORMICK

`