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Viewing cable 08BRASILIA1265, LULA, AMORIM DISCUSS TRADE, CUBA, UNSC REFORM WITH

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Reference ID Created Released Classification Origin
08BRASILIA1265 2008-09-22 21:02 2011-07-11 00:00 UNCLASSIFIED//FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY Embassy Brasilia
VZCZCXRO8733
RR RUEHRG
DE RUEHBR #1265/01 2662102
ZNR UUUUU ZZH
R 222102Z SEP 08
FM AMEMBASSY BRASILIA
TO RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHDC 2500
INFO RUEHAC/AMEMBASSY ASUNCION 7072
RUEHBU/AMEMBASSY BUENOS AIRES 5813
RUEHCV/AMEMBASSY CARACAS 4249
RUEHLP/AMEMBASSY LA PAZ 6593
RUEHPE/AMEMBASSY LIMA 3956
RUEHMN/AMEMBASSY MONTEVIDEO 7524
RUEHQT/AMEMBASSY QUITO 2599
RUEHSG/AMEMBASSY SANTIAGO 0588
RUEHRG/AMCONSUL RECIFE 8484
RUEHRI/AMCONSUL RIO DE JANEIRO 6637
RUEHSO/AMCONSUL SAO PAULO 2778
UNCLAS SECTION 01 OF 03 BRASILIA 001265 
 
SENSITIVE 
SIPDIS 
 
STATE FOR BSC 
 
E.O. 12958: N/A 
TAGS: PAO ETRD PREL ECON BR
SUBJECT: LULA, AMORIM DISCUSS TRADE, CUBA, UNSC REFORM WITH 
SENATOR HAGEL 
 
REF: BRASILIA 001218 
 
1.(SBU) Summary: In separate meetings, President Lula and 
Minister Amorim discussed with Senator Hagel their views on 
Doha, Brazil,s growing engagement with Cuba, and the need 
for a multilateralist U.S. approach to international 
problems.  Both Lula and Amorim highlighted common themes, 
focused on the need for the U.S. to take a more multilateral 
approach to global problems and expressing the hope that the 
new U.S. administration will be more willing to work within 
existing international framework.  Both also focused on the 
changes they perceive in Cuba and how Brazil,s vigorous 
engagement there will help it achieve what Brazil sees as 
Cuba,s desire to become more like Brazil than Venezuela. 
End summary. 
 
2.(U) This cable is the second of five on Senator Hagel,s 
August 31-September 2 visit to Brasilia and Sao Paulo.  Ref A 
addressed Lula,s and Amorim,s comments on Iran, Venezuela, 
and their desire for continuity in the bilateral relationship 
when a new U.S. Administration takes office. 
 
--------------------------------------------- - 
Amorim Discusses Multilateralism, Ethanol Tariff, Cuba 
--------------------------------------------- - 
 
3. (SBU) During an expansive meeting that lasted almost two 
hours, Minister for External Relations Celso Amorim said that 
he felt the United States faced a continual dilemma in its 
foreign policy between unilateralism and multilateralism.  He 
sees a greater tendency lately for the United States to rely 
on multilateral instititutions *- the UN and WTO, in 
particular -* which is very welcome for Brazil and &allows 
us to cooperate more.8  Cooperation in Haiti, for example, 
was only possible because of the UN sanction for the 
peacekeeping mission there.  Amorim is confident the next 
president*whether Senator Obama or Senator McCain*will be a 
multilateralist.  This will be good for the relationship and 
good for Brazil, as the United States is Brazil,s largest 
trading partner and the largest chunk of outward Brazilian 
investment now goes to the United States.  The GOB 
particularly appreciates U.S. efforts to continue the Doha 
Round, as there are some issues that are only correctible in 
a multilateral negotiation.  Sen. Hagel responded that 
Brazil,s leadership in Doha was very much appreciated. 
 
4. (SBU) Minister Amorim raised the U.S. tariff on sugar cane 
ethanol, saying it should come down.  Senator Hagel said he 
agreed and that this would occur, but cautioned that 
agriculture is a cultural and societal issue as much as an 
economic one.  Nonetheless, he sees a gradual shift coming in 
the entire U.S. agriculture policy with regard to tariffs and 
trade.  When he noted that cattle and poultry producers were 
being hurt by the high price of corn, Amorim observed that it 
was interesting that lowering the tariff on ethanol would not 
be an unmitigated good for Brazil, as lower U.S. prices for 
cattle and poultry would hurt Brazilian exporters of those 
commodities. 
 
5. (SBU) Ambassador Sobel raised the need to increase 
bilateral investment between our two countries through a tax 
information exchange agreement, a tax treaty, and eventually 
an investment treaty.  Amorim said the tax treaty is the 
place to start, as it might be difficult to gain 
congressional ratification for an investment treaty. 
 
6. (SBU) When General Spears mentioned our interest in more 
military-military cooperation with Brazil, Amorim cautioned 
that this required careful explanation, citing the &strong 
reaction8 to the announcement of the re-establishment of the 
Fourth Fleet.  He suggested it would be important to discuss 
the issue with key Brazilian senators.  (Note: the Brazilian 
congress was not in session during Senator Hagel,s visit, 
making it impossible to arrange meetings with key members of 
congress.  End note.) 
 
7. (SBU) Senator Hagel asked about Amorim,s view of Cuba. 
Amorim described the changes there as &irreversible,8 a 
 
BRASILIA 00001265  002 OF 003 
 
 
&Chinese glasnost8 comparable to the changes in Vietnam. 
He said he could not understand why the United States could 
turn around its relations with Vietnam, and not with Cuba. 
Senator Hagel expressed his view that the U.S. needs to shift 
its Cuba policy.  Amorim replied that he believes the Cuban 
government would rather be &more like Brazil than 
Venezuela8*adding quickly that Brazil and Venezuela are of 
course not competitors*but that the U.S. embargo and 
Venezuela,s offers of cheap oil are forcing Cuba into a 
closer relationship with Venezuela. 
 
8. (SBU) Senator Hagel asked Amorim about the situation in 
Argentina.  Amorim said that they are experiencing &a 
difficult moment8 as a result of pursuing unorthodox 
economic policies.  Engaging the GOA is important, he said, 
praising WHA Assistant Secretary Shannon,s recent visit to 
Argentina as an important, especially as A/S Shannon 
&understands the region well.8 
 
9. (SBU) Under Secretary for Political Affairs Everton Vargas 
raised the work going on in the Nuclear Suppliers Group with 
regard to India, saying that Brazil has been working closely 
with the United States on this.  Amorim noted the important 
link between non-proliferation and disarmament, saying that 
it was important to continue working on both issues.  Senator 
Hagel agreed. 
 
10. (SBU) Finally, saying that he had to walk a careful line 
between &showing he was interested and appearing obsessed,8 
Amorim raised UN Security Council reform, stressing the 
importance of U.S. leadership.  Senator Hagel agreed that it 
was important for the make-up of the UN Security Council to 
reflect present-day realities. 
 
--------------------------------------------- -- 
Talking Growing Involvement in Cuba with Lula Advisor 
--------------------------------------------- -- 
 
11. (SBU) Marcel Biato, deputy national security affairs 
adviser, told Senator Hagel just before the meeting with 
President Lula that Brazil authorized on August 31 the second 
tranche of aid in &soft loans8 to Cuba, bringing the total 
to USD 800 million. He estimated that Brazilian lending to 
Cuba could reach a billion dollars.  He said their term is 
15-20 years and they are like Exim Bank loans. 
 
12. (SBU) He said Petrobras, the Brazilian state oil and gas 
firm, is currently exploring two &strongly promising8 
blocks, one off Varadero, the other in the Gulf of Mexico. 
He said Cuba has an old Russian oil refinery that has been 
modernized, but Cuba will still need additional spare 
capacity.  He mentioned that about ten years ago Petrobras 
also had a series of oil and gas projects in Cuba but nothing 
came of them. 
 
13. (SBU) Biato,s impression of Raul Castro is that of a 
&pragmatist8 looking for ways to provide a &soft landing8 
from a transitional period.  Biato noted he is &the last of 
the commanders who came down from the Sierra8 and &no one 
else has the ability to get the public to bear with him8 in 
support of &wishy-washy Caribbean socialism.8 
 
14. (SBU) Biato told Senator Hagel that at the end of 2008 
Brazil will host a Latin American conference dealing with 
regional integration and Raul Castro may attend.  &It could 
be an interesting moment,8 Biato added. 
 
--------------------------------------------- ---- 
Lula: Much Work to be Done Together on Africa, Trade, Biofuels 
--------------------------------------------- ---- 
 
15. (SBU) President Lula for his part discussed the problems 
Brazil faces, but focused on the positive strides the country 
has made during the past several years.  He focused on the 
youth bulge in demographics, noting that meeting the 
expectations of all of the world,s young people is a 
challenge.  For two decades, according to Lula, Brazil 
experienced low development and little income distribution 
 
BRASILIA 00001265  003 OF 003 
 
 
and mistaken economic policies.  &Today,8 he noted, &is a 
magical moment for Brazil.8  There is clear movement to the 
middle class, he added.  Brazil, according to Lula, is 
focused more and more on professional, vocational training. 
The target, according to him, is 4.5 million young people 
between 10-15 years old for this training.  Brazil, he added, 
is also using subsidies to attract youth to this training. 
&It is my conviction,8 he stressed, &that the state must 
create opportunity and solutions for young people.8 
 
16. (SBU) Lula noted two main concerns for Brazil going 
forward.   First, the nonconclusion of the Doha round.  The 
disagreements, according to Lula, pale in comparison to the 
implications of a successful agreement.  &We can resume 
talks in September,8 he added.  Second, the U.S. and 
European financial crisis.  Contradicting earlier public 
statements he has made to the effect that Brazil is immune to 
financial turmoil in the U.S., Lula noted that &if the U.S. 
crisis last much longer and you go into a recession, that can 
impact developing countries. & So far, he added, &we have 
been lucky, in part because of China,s and India,s economic 
growth.8 
 
17. (SBU) Echoing a constant theme in all meetings with 
Brazilian government officials that focus on Brazil,s 
foreign policy, Lula also touched on the need to reform the 
United Nations Security Council (UNSC).  &This has been very 
slow,8 he noted.  &I said to Bush, & What will be your 
legacy? Security Council reform is one option.,8  There 
needs to be an opening, Lula noted.  Completing Doha is a 
second option for Bush,s legacy, according to Lula.  &Iraq 
cannot be your only legacy,8 he said he had told President 
Bush. 
 
18. (SBU) On Africa, Lula noted that he remarked to President 
Bush, &Europe has forgotten Africa, the U.S. has forgotten 
Africa, Brazil forgot Africa for 50 years.  China has 
discovered Africa and is active and strong.8  He added that 
he sees China active in Angola, Ghana, Benin, &wherever 
there are raw materials.8  He also noted that China,s entry 
to Africa has been a &predatory8 entrance.  To counteract 
this, Lula noted, &we should have a U.S.-Brazil partnership 
on Africa.8  Africa, he highlighted, has the same climate as 
Latin America and can produce grain and biofuels.  He ended 
by noting that, &Africa is a prime opportunity for 
U.S.-Brazil cooperation on agricultural projects to help the 
world.8 
 
 
 
 
KUBISKE