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Viewing cable 06HANOI1880, AMBASSADOR DISCUSSES PROTESTANT ISSUES IN THREE NORTHERN

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Reference ID Created Released Classification Origin
06HANOI1880 2006-07-25 07:31 2011-08-25 00:00 UNCLASSIFIED//FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY Embassy Hanoi
VZCZCXRO9971
RR RUEHCHI RUEHDT RUEHHM
DE RUEHHI #1880/01 2060731
ZNR UUUUU ZZH
R 250731Z JUL 06
FM AMEMBASSY HANOI
TO RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHDC 2851
INFO RUEHHM/AMCONSUL HO CHI MINH CITY 1539
RUEHZS/ASEAN REGIONAL FORUM COLLECTIVE
UNCLAS SECTION 01 OF 03 HANOI 001880 
 
SIPDIS 
 
SENSITIVE 
SIPDIS 
 
STATE FOR EAP/MLS, DRL/IRF 
 
E.O. 12958: N/A 
TAGS: PREL PHUM KIRF VM
SUBJECT: AMBASSADOR DISCUSSES PROTESTANT ISSUES IN THREE NORTHERN 
PROVINCES; VISITS BAPTISTS IN BAC GIANG AND ETHNIC MINORITY 
PROTESTANTS IN LANG SON 
 
REF: A) HANOI 1877;  B) HANOI 1678; C) HANOI 1466; D) HANOI 1113; E) 
 
HANOI 1112 
 
HANOI 00001880  001.2 OF 003 
 
 
1. (SBU) Summary and Comment: During a July 5-7 provincial outreach 
trip, the Ambassador discussed Protestant issues with the leaders of 
Thai Nguyen, Bac Giang and Lang Son provinces.  Thai Nguyen 
officials were open-minded about the issue of registration, but 
tightlipped about their future plans.  In Bac Giang, the Ambassador 
was able to meet with a handful of Baptists belonging to a 
controversial congregation in one district, despite a clumsy attempt 
by local officials to steer him toward meeting with disgruntled 
traditionalist relatives of the Baptists.  It is not likely that the 
congregation will be registered any time soon and their leader may 
be arrested for debt.  In Lang Son, by comparison a model province 
on religious freedom, the Ambassador visited a well-established, 
registered Protestant church in a Dzao community, and also met with 
the leader of a H'mong church that is seeking registration.  This 
trip reinforces our impression that implementation of the GVN's 
policy to register Protestants and facilitate worship in the north 
varies widely from province to province.  In the coming months, we 
will press the GVN to force other more recalcitrant northern 
provinces to move toward the Lang Son approach.  End Summary and 
Comment. 
 
THAI NGUYEN LEADERSHIP 
---------------------- 
 
2. (SBU) On July 5, the Ambassador met with Thai Nguyen Provincial 
People's Committee (PPC) Chairman Nguyen Van Kim.  Following a 
discussion of Catholic issues (Ref A), Kim noted that "a number of 
residents" follow Evangelical Church of Vietnam North (ECVN) 
Protestantism in Thai Nguyen.  (Note:  The ECVN reports that there 
are 1,500 total Kinh, Dzao and H'mong believers, comprising eighteen 
separate congregations, in the province.  End Note).  The PPC is 
currently providing instructions to the Protestants on how to 
practice their religion "without causing economic hardship." 
Protestantism is a new phenomenon in Thai Nguyen, but the PPC is 
aware of the PM's Instruction on Protestantism, and if followers 
practice their faith in accordance with the GVN's legal framework on 
religion, they "probably will not have any problems to register 
their congregations." (Note: The Chairman made no mention of a 
provincial pilot project to register Protestants despite the GVN's 
Committee on Religious Affair's suggestion that such a program might 
be underway in Thai Nguyen - Ref C.  Following up after the 
Ambassador's discussion, Poloff was told that Thai Nguyen has a plan 
to register six ECVN congregations by October or November, but 
provincial officials have refused to comment further on this plan 
despite repeated requests for more information.  End Note.) 
 
BAC GIANG LEADERSHIP 
-------------------- 
 
3. (SBU) On July 6, the Ambassador met with Bac Giang PPC Chairman 
Than Van Muu.  In addition to other issues discussed, Muu noted that 
the Baptist congregation in Song Mai Commune (Ref B) comprises only 
17 individuals, according to a list submitted by Pastor Than Van 
Truong.  (Note: Truong is a long time advocate of religious freedom 
in Vietnam.  He was committed by the GVN to a mental institution in 
July 2004, after sending letters to provincial officials calling on 
them to abandon Communist teachings and follow Christian scripture 
instead.  He was released on September 17, 2005 after reportedly 
signing a document acknowledging a mental illness.  Since his 
release, Truong has strenuously advocated religious freedom over GVN 
objections.  End Note).  This is in stark contrast to the large 
Buddhist (150,000) and Catholic (17,000) populations in the 
province.  The Ambassador noted that the registration of Protestant 
groups like Truong's congregation is very important for our 
bilateral relationship.  Officials, especially at the local level, 
need to allow people to worship as they please, in accordance with 
GVN law and policies.  The number of Protestants in Bac Giang may be 
small, but the law does not say their congregation has to be big to 
be legal.  Problems like those in Song Mai are hurting the public 
image of Vietnam.  If provincial and district officials facilitate 
the Baptists' ability to worship, the international community will 
applaud, but if they hinder that freedom, the international 
community will not react well, the Ambassador said. 
 
4. (SBU) Muu admitted that he and his staff do not know much about 
Protestantism, but he asserted that the GVN respects the rights of 
all Vietnamese to worship as they please.  "You also need to trust 
our reports of religious freedom...if you receive reports of 
incidents from other sources, be suspicious," he added.  The 
Baptists in Song Mai all come from one clan.  Part of the clan 
follows traditional (ancestor worship) beliefs.  Part of the current 
conflict in the commune stems from family friction between the 
traditionalists and the Baptists.  "In fact, I am from the same clan 
as Pastor Truong and some other members of the clan are local 
 
HANOI 00001880  002.2 OF 003 
 
 
officials as well," Muu said.  (Note: Than is the clan name for both 
Muu and Truong.  End Note).  He also asserted that the intra-clan 
conflict may be seen by outsiders as a problem between local 
officials and believers, but really "there is no local government 
effort to prohibit religion in Bac Giang."  In conclusion, Muu noted 
that the PPC plans to arrest Truong soon over the issue of his debts 
(Ref B).  The Ambassador noted that we will continue to monitor 
Truong's and the Baptists' situation closely, and we hope that any 
legal action against Truong follows the same laws, procedures and 
standards under which any other Vietnamese would be prosecuted. 
 
SONG MAI COMMUNE 
---------------- 
 
5. (SBU) In the afternoon, the Ambassador visited Song Mai Commune 
and met with the Chairman of the People's Committee, Mr. Do Van Bao, 
and a commune representative of the Vietnam Fatherland Front's 
Veterans Association.  Bao noted that the PPC had instructed him to 
introduce the Ambassador to ten people named by Truong as members of 
his church in an official list submitted along with the Baptist's 
application to register.  The commune arranged for that group to 
meet at the cultural center (a one-room building) in Song Mai. 
"Truong wanted to meet with you too, but since he is not a legal 
resident here it would not be safe for him to meet you," Bao said. 
The Ambassador thanked Bao for arranging the meeting, but reiterated 
his request to meet Mr. and Mrs. Hoe, the owners of the house in 
which the Baptist congregation regularly meets for worship.  Bao 
claimed that Hoe and his wife were among those invited to the 
culture center.  (Note: The Hoes told us by phone that they refused 
to meet with the Ambassador at the culture center.  End Note.) 
 
6. (SBU) Bao introduced six elderly individuals as Baptists, noting 
that they were all listed as such on Truong's application.  All of 
them proved to be Buddhist septuagenarian relatives of Truong, and 
most had little understanding of the questions put to them regarding 
Protestantism.  The one exception was a man (NFI) in his early 40's 
who stated that Truong is his cousin.  He appeared at the culture 
center because the local officials informed him he was on the list 
of Baptists Truong submitted with his application.  "I was very 
surprised that Truong has brought Protestantism here...I and my 
family don't agree with him and most people here worship their 
ancestors according to tradition" the man said. 
 
7. (SBU) In the face of this meager presentation, the Ambassador 
insisted that Bao allow him to visit the Hoe household (which is 
located just behind the culture center), and talk to the Baptists 
directly.  After a brief attempt to prevent the Ambassador to visit 
the home on the grounds that local officials could not guarantee his 
safety, Bao relented under orders from the PPC religious affairs 
representative.  Mr. and Mrs. Hoe, Pastor Truong and his wife 
greeted the Ambassador at the locked door to their compound.  Hoe's 
wife also showed the Ambassador the small bedroom and chapel on the 
second floor that is used for prayer meetings.  Hoe stated that the 
group only wants to follow religion under the GVN's framework on 
religion.  At this point the man claiming to be Truong's cousin 
forced his way into the chapel and crudely accosted Hoe's and 
Truong's wives in Vietnamese.  Truong's wife lost her temper at the 
extreme insult and began shoving the cousin.  As the Ambassador left 
the building, the two wrestled physically and verbally on the stairs 
while Bao tried to separate them bodily. 
 
LANG SON 
-------- 
 
8. (SBU) On July 7, the Ambassador met with Lang Son PPC Chairman 
Doan Ba Nhien.  Following a discussion of Catholic issues (Ref A), 
Nhien noted that "in Lang Son, we are trying to work in line with 
Vietnam's Constitution" with regard to Protestants.  The ECVN 
congregation of Dzao Protestants in Bac Son District was formed in 
1938.  It existed as separate group until it joined the ECVN as a 
single congregation.  The Ambassador complimented the PPC on its 
enlightened approach to Protestants as well as Catholics and 
encouraged Nhien to assist the ethnic H'mong group in Bac Son to 
register their congregation as well in the spirit of the PM's 
Instruction on Protestantism.  (Note:  The ECVN reports that the 
H'mong group in Bac Son comprises 292 individuals who first 
submitted an application to register with district officials in June 
2005.  The congregation re-submitted their application in January, 
2006.  End Note.) 
 
9. (SBU) The Ambassador visited the ECVN house church in Suoi Nay 
Village of Tan Tri Commune in Bac Son later in the afternoon.  The 
district is three hours from Lang Son City by car and the village is 
accessible via a new, six kilometer (km) road off the main road to 
the boundary with Thai Nguyen Province, which is only eight miles 
beyond the village turn off.  The village is reached by a two km 
dirt track that winds through rice paddies and crosses several 
 
HANOI 00001880  003 OF 003 
 
 
streams with makeshift electrical turbines powered by the water. 
The church is a stilt house with a large front room kitted out with 
mats, a pulpit, several fans and a large electronic organ.  Unlike 
the members of other ECVN house churches visited by Embassy staff in 
the North (Refs D and E), church members were not wearing ethnic 
costumes.  The Ambassador met with Pastor Ly Tien Luu, who explained 
that the 1,500 followers (308 households) of the Dzao church in Lang 
Son are divided into twelve sub-congregations.  Each group gathers 
in structures in other areas of Bac Son District.  Each house holds 
about 120 people on Sundays, but more people attend Christmas and 
Easter services.  There is a management board for each 
sub-congregation.  With the exception of Pastor Luu who studied with 
ECVN in Hanoi, the deacons leading each group have not had any 
formal training, Luu Said. 
 
10. (SBU) Luu stated that this congregation is still growing and has 
asked local officials for permission to build an actual church in 
Suoi Nay.  The local government has agreed in principle with this 
request, but the group has not yet completed all of the paperwork to 
proceed with the building project.  The congregation hopes to 
eventually build churches for all 12 sub-congregations as well. 
Since the promulgation of the GVN's Ordinance on Religion in 2004, 
the religious life of the Bac Son congregation has "become normal." 
The group even is allowed to worship in Dzao language using Dzao 
materials and bibles provided by ECVN, although Luu also preaches in 
Kinh (ethnic Vietnamese) when local officials are present.  The 
church has also organized social groups for small children, primary 
school students, teenagers, adults and elderly members of the 
church, Luu said with quiet pride. 
 
11. (SBU) Luu also introduced the Ambassador to Ly Van Sung, who is 
the deacon of the unregistered H'mong congregation in Bac Son.  Luu 
noted that the H'mong Protestants emigrated to Bac Son in 2000 from 
other areas of the north.  The local authorities encouraged us to 
reach out to this new group to help them establish their new 
congregation, Luu said.  Sung noted that the H'mong congregation of 
34 households has still not received permission to register.  Their 
house church is 40km from Suoi Nay (about an hour by motorbike). 
When the group first arrived from Thai Nguyen, Bac Giang, Bac Kan, 
and Cao Bang provinces, Bac Son District officials did not allow 
them to practice their religion, but since the PM's Instruction, and 
especially in 2006, local officials have gradually allowed the group 
to worship, Sung explained. 
 
Comment 
------- 
 
12. (SBU) This trip reinforces our impression that implementation of 
the GVN's policy to register Protestants and facilitate worship in 
the north varies widely from province to province.  In Thai Nguyen, 
the PPC is open-minded but tight-lipped about plans for 
registrations.  In Bac Giang, local officials seem quite unhappy by 
the advent of Truong's Baptists and determined to resist their 
development, not to mention their registration, despite our and the 
international community's attention.  (This may have more to do with 
"Pastor" Truong than with the handful of Baptist practitioners in 
Song Mai Commune).  Lang Son, on the other hand, is a model for what 
we would like to see in a provincial government's approach to 
religious freedom, though this owes much to the long tradition of 
religion in the province.  In the coming months, we will press the 
GVN to force other more recalcitrant northern provinces to move 
toward the Lang Son approach. 
 
MARINE