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Viewing cable 05SAOPAULO1158, CONVERSATION WITH JOSE DIRCEU, OCTOBER 9, 2005

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Reference ID Created Released Classification Origin
05SAOPAULO1158 2005-10-13 19:58 2011-07-11 00:00 CONFIDENTIAL Consulate Sao Paulo
This record is a partial extract of the original cable. The full text of the original cable is not available.
C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 02 SAO PAULO 001158 
 
SIPDIS 
 
E.O. 12958: DECL: 10/12/2015 
TAGS: PINR PGOV BR
SUBJECT: CONVERSATION WITH JOSE DIRCEU, OCTOBER 9, 2005 
 
REF: A. BRASILIA 2219 
 
     B. BRASILIA 2687 AND PREVIOUS 
 
Classified By: ACTING CONSUL GENERAL ARNOLD VELA.  REASON: E.O. 
12958, 
1.4(D) 
 
1. (C) Summary: While transiting through Sao Paulo, Brasilia 
TDY poloff attended an October 9 lunch with friends at which 
Federal Deputy and former Lula Chief of Staff Jose Dirceu was 
present.  During their 30-minute conversation, Dirceu shared 
his views on the political crisis, the future of the 
Workers, Party (PT), prospects for political reform, and his 
own current status and plans for the future.  End summary. 
 
2.  (C)   Dirceu appeared well and reasonably relaxed. During 
the course of the meal, he talked mostly about his own 
family, cuisine, travel and personal things he wanted to do 
in the future.  It was striking that, on the day of the 
decisive second round of the PT internal elections, he had 
fully four hours to devote to this kind of activity.  His 
cell phone only rang three or four times.  Several of these 
calls appeared related to efforts by the opposition to accuse 
his son of committing irregularities, which obviously 
irritated him.  Following the meal, TDY poloff had the 
opportunity to chat one-on-one with Dirceu for about thirty 
minutes. 
 
3.    (C) Compared to previous conversations -- just after 
his resignation from the Planalto in June and again in late 
August (ref A) -- Dirceu was less critical of the government 
and more optimistic about Lula,s prospects for re-election 
next year.  As opposed to flatly predicting the President 
would lose, he now thinks there will be a competitive race, 
the result of which is currently unforeseeable.  With respect 
to the PT election for national president, he predicted 
(accurately) that Ricardo Berzoini would win narrowly, with 
about 52 percent of the vote.  He did not anticipate that the 
new, more left-leaning composition of the national 
directorate would cause much of a problem within the party or 
for the government.  In response to a question about the 
possible "re-radicalization8 of the Brazilian left over the 
mid- and longer-term, Dirceu had the following observations: 
The PT ) more or less as it is today ) would continue to 
dominate the left side of the Brazilian political system.  A 
few more defections might well take place, which he indicated 
he would even be pleased to see, but no single mass-based 
party would emerge to the PT,s left. And no one within its 
loyal ranks would take it back to the old (far left-wing) 
posture during the post-Lula period. In an interesting aside, 
Dirceu averred that ) all modesty aside ) he was the only 
one who could carry off such a volte-face, but he had no 
intention of doing so because &of the kind of person he is 
and the fact it would be bad for the country.8 
 
4.    (C) As on previous occasions, Dirceu did not appear 
very interested in the issue of political reform, or in the 
details or specifics of any such reform.  He acknowledged 
that candidates, including Lula, would have to use reform as 
a campaign theme.  In this context, Dirceu admitted that he 
himself had habitually spent twice what he had reported on 
his own campaigns and that all Brazilian politicians employed 
some form of &caixa dois8 (unaccounted or unreported 
funds).  While bothered by the hypocrisy of his current 
adversaries on this score, Dirceu considered this practice 
natural and even unavoidable in a country where &politicians 
do not like to be seen taking money and donors do not like to 
be seen giving it.8 
 
5.    (C) With respect to his own situation, Dirceu intends 
to continue vigorously defending himself against anything but 
acceptance of general political responsibility for the 
current problems of the PT and the Lula administration. 
According to him, he is on good terms with the government but 
it is not helping him much ) and he neither wants nor needs 
any favors from the President,s office.  Nevertheless, 
Dirceu still expects to be expelled from Congress and 
deprived of the right to run again for eight years, and he 
seemed on this occasion somewhat less sure than previously 
that this result could be paralyzed or reversed in the 
courts.  But he regards any such judgment as a purely 
political one.   By his lights, in contrast to most of the 
other accused Congressmen, there are no concrete proofs of 
wrongdoing on his part, and the congressional ethics 
committee lacks jurisdiction in his case, since he was not 
acting as a federal deputy when any of the acts he is accused 
of were committed.  He would, however, have to accept 
whatever eventually happens. His strategy now is to keep his 
head down and work to maintain the enduring influence he 
still retains within the party. 
 
6.    (C) In this regard, Dirceu strongly reiterated his 
interest in coming to the United States during the 
December-February period for the purpose of decompressing, 
working on a book and learning English.  For the first time, 
he began making concrete inquiries about such practical 
matters as, for example, a visa, where he should stay in the 
U.S., and what he should do there.  Poloff was non-committal 
but promised to talk with him again in Brasilia. 
7.    (U) This message was coordinated with Embassy Brasilia. 
 
VELA