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Viewing cable 05WELLINGTON452, WITH NEW ZEALAND PM, AMBASSADOR RAISES POSSIBILITY

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Reference ID Created Released Classification Origin
05WELLINGTON452 2005-06-10 00:59 2011-04-28 00:00 CONFIDENTIAL Embassy Wellington
This record is a partial extract of the original cable. The full text of the original cable is not available.
C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 03 WELLINGTON 000452 
 
SIPDIS 
 
STATE FOR EAP A/S HILL, EAP/ANP, EAP/CM AND EAP/J 
NSC FOR NSA HADLEY AND VCHA 
SECDEF FOR OSD/ISA LIZ PHU 
 
E.O. 12958: DECL: 06/09/2015 
TAGS: PREL NZ
SUBJECT: WITH NEW ZEALAND PM, AMBASSADOR RAISES POSSIBILITY 
OF BILATERAL DISCUSSIONS 
 
 
Classified by: Ambassador Charles J. Swindells.  Reasons: 1.4 
(b) and (d). 
 
1. (C) Begin summary: In a meeting that included discussion 
of China's growing power and the need for a U.S. presence in 
the Pacific, the Ambassador told New Zealand Prime Minister 
Clark that the time was ripe for a frank and comprehensive 
dialogue between our governments on issues that hinder our 
bilateral relationship, including New Zealand's anti-nuclear 
policy.  The Prime Minister expressed frustration over the 
perception of difficulties in the relationship despite having 
so much in common, but did not immediately take up the offer 
of dialogue.  Nonetheless, while noting that she is focused 
on coming national elections, she left the door open to 
bilateral discussions, saying there may be an area of 
flexibility that would allow the relationship to move 
forward.  End summary. 
 
PM's visits to China and Japan 
------------------------------ 
2. (U) At the Ambassador's request, he and Prime Minister 
Clark met June 8.  The Ambassador told the Prime Minister 
that it was an opportune time to touch base, in view of 
recent trips by Clark to China and Japan, by Foreign Minister 
Goff to the United States and Canada, and by the Ambassador 
to Washington. 
 
3. (C) Recounting her May 30 to June 4 trip to China and 
Japan, PM Clark expressed deep interest in ensuring that 
China's emergence as a great power is peaceful.  She said New 
Zealand would use whatever ability it has to influence 
China's direction positively, which was part of the message 
that FM Goff took to Washington in late May. 
 
4. (C) Clark reported that the Chinese, who have been 
negotiating a free-trade agreement with the New Zealanders 
since December 2004, stated their keen interest in achieving 
an agreement.  When Clark told them that the deal had to be 
both ambitious and "high quality," the Chinese agreed. 
"We're presented as more cautious than they have been," Clark 
commented.  China is New Zealand's fourth-largest trade 
partner. 
 
5. (C) The Prime Minister said she delivered a strong message 
on North Korea to the Chinese, saying she believed that their 
role was critical in curbing North Korea's nuclear program -- 
that they had more influence than anyone else over the North 
Korean government.  She also noted that while the Chinese 
have told the United States to be more subtle in its 
approach, subtlety does not work with North Korea. 
 
6. (C) Clark recalled that Chinese President Hu had said at 
the last APEC summit that it was important for the Japanese 
to not inflame their bilateral relations, pointing 
particularly to Japanese leaders' visits to Yasukuni Shrine. 
Hu left the impression that the Chinese believed the ball was 
in the Japanese court.  But that is not the way the Japanese 
see it, Clark said.  Instead, they believe that by canceling 
visits to the shrine, it would appear that they were 
succumbing to Chinese pressure. 
 
7. (C) Clark -- noting the importance to New Zealand of its 
relationship to Japan, its third-largest trade partner -- 
said she detected a "reflective" mood in her meeting with 
President Koizumi regarding how Japan should deal with its 
wartime past.  He is mindful of the coming 60th anniversary 
of VJ Day.  Clark said it will be helpful if Koizumi reflects 
over the next two months the humility he expressed in 
attending VE Day ceremonies in Moscow. 
 
8. (C) Clark said that on the day she met with Koizumi, the 
Australians delivered a demarche on Japan's scientific 
whaling activities.  She knew that the United States also had 
delivered a strong message.  She told the Japanese that it 
would be a tragedy if they left the International Whaling 
Commission.  That would allow the Japanese to operate without 
any discipline, and we need to continue the dialogue with 
them, she said to the Ambassador. 
 
9. (C) Meanwhile, Clark wondered whether resolution of the 
tensions between China and Japan would affect both the North 
Korean problem and UN Security Council reform.  She 
speculated that such tensions may have given the Chinese a 
reason to hold back on the Six-Party Talks and caused them to 
be obstructionist in the United Nations, opposing a permanent 
seat on the Security Council for Japan. 
 
U.S.-New Zealand relationship 
----------------------------- 
10. (C) The Ambassador said that, in his recent meetings with 
the President and officials at the White House and State and 
Defense Departments, it is clear that the U.S. government 
considers the relationship with New Zealand to be important. 
It also is clear, however, that the bilateral relationship is 
not what it needs to be.  Thus, the U.S. government would 
like to begin a quiet and frank dialogue with New Zealand on 
all issues on which we do not agree.  While those issues 
would include New Zealand's anti-nuclear legislation, the 
discussions might not necessarily result in a change in the 
legislation or in a return by New Zealand to the ANZUS 
alliance.  But we will not know about the possibilities of 
moving the bilateral relationship forward unless we talk 
about them.  However, the Ambassador made it clear that we 
are looking to New Zealand to express its interest in such 
discussions and to indicate its preferences on when and how 
they might take place. 
 
11. (C) PM Clark responded that she was focused on a certain 
"date," referring to elections that she has not yet scheduled 
but that must be held by September 24.  But she added that in 
the New Zealand-U.S. relationship, "we have everything in 
common."  It is frustrating that, despite such commonality, 
"the relationship seems to go grumpy" by being seen through 
only one issue -- implying, the anti-nuclear issue.  She 
noted New Zealand's contribution to the war and 
reconstruction in Afghanistan and willingness to contribute 
to efforts in the Pacific.  "When I go to APEC, you can't 
split a hair between the President and myself," Clark said. 
 
12. (C) The Ambassador stressed that proceeding with dialogue 
would be up to New Zealand and assured Clark that there was 
no pressure on her.  "We're ready when you tell us you're 
ready," the Ambassador said.  DCM Burnett said the 
discussions could be held privately and could be productive 
even if they came full circle.  They could help us to work 
together more efficiently, for instance, on such efforts at 
the Proliferation Security Initiative (PSI). 
 
13. (C) Both countries must find ways to deal with new 
realities, Clark responded.  The PSI is a classic example: 
New Zealand was invited to participate, while some in the 
Pentagon suggested it should not be allowed to join the 
military exercises. 
 
14. (C) While noting that the United States no longer arms 
its ships with nuclear weapons, Clark said her "gut feeling" 
was that her government would not want to change its 
anti-nuclear legislation, which would continue to ban 
nuclear-propelled ships.  "I know how your Navy will 
respond," she said.  DCM Burnett said that the ban was not 
necessarily a problem bilaterally since we have never had a 
pressing need to send any vessels to New Zealand, but had 
repercussions elsewhere in the region in terms of U.S. fleet 
mobility.  Clark said, "If that's an area of flexibility -- 
of no need for nuclear ships in our area -- then that's 
perhaps an area for us to move forward." 
 
15. (C) The Ambassador pointed out the interest of Australia, 
Singapore and other countries in a strong U.S. presence for 
regional stability and economic reasons.  The Prime Minister 
said the emerging strategic architecture in the Pacific had 
to include the United States.  With the rise of China and 
India, with Japan once being "abhorrently" powerful but now 
in decline, and with ASEAN as a counterweight, a U.S. 
presence is necessary.  "China has to be balanced," she said. 
 
16. (C) The Ambassador suggested that opening a dialogue 
could highlight areas in which New Zealand and the United 
States might increase their cooperation.  His successor has 
been identified but not yet confirmed, and even though the 
Ambassador will be leaving Wellington within the year, he 
would ensure continuity in any discussions once they had 
started.  He noted his deep respect for the Prime Minister 
and the belief that she could find a way forward in the 
bilateral relationship.  He asked that the Prime Minister let 
him know if and when she was comfortable with proceeding with 
discussions.  She responded, half jokingly, "We're here to 
help." 
 
17. (U) PM Clark was accompanied by Brook Barrington, her 
foreign policy adviser, and Roy Ferguson, director of the 
Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade's Americas Division. 
The Ambassador was accompanied by the DCM and acting 
political-economic counselor (notetaker). 
 
18. (C) Comment: The message to PM Clark was clear:  It is 
now up to her government as to whether it chooses to seek 
better relations with the United States and pursues dialogue 
with us.  But a decision will have to wait, with the Labour 
government's lead in public opinion polls declining and with 
it facing what now appears to be a difficult campaign for 
re-election. 
Swindells