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Viewing cable 02HANOI2862, DISCUSSING RELIGIOUS FREEDOM WITH FM NIEN

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Reference ID Created Released Classification Origin
02HANOI2862 2002-11-29 09:35 2011-08-25 00:00 UNCLASSIFIED Embassy Hanoi
This record is a partial extract of the original cable. The full text of the original cable is not available.

290935Z Nov 02

2002HANOI02862 - UNCLASSIFIED
 
 
 
                           UNCLASSIFIED     PTQ1118

PAGE 01        HANOI  02862  01 OF 02  291001Z 
ACTION DRL-02   

INFO  LOG-00   NP-00    CIAE-00  DODE-00  DS-00    EAP-00   FBIE-00  
      UTED-00  VC-00    TEDE-00  INR-00   LAB-01   L-00     VCE-00   
      NSAE-00  PER-00   IRM-00   SSO-00   SS-00    TEST-00  USIE-00  
      IIP-00   DSCC-00  PRM-00   NFAT-00  SAS-00     /003W
                  ------------------1025F5  291001Z /38    
FM AMEMBASSY HANOI
TO SECSTATE WASHDC IMMEDIATE 8214
INFO AMCONSUL HO CHI MINH CITY 
AMEMBASSY PHNOM PENH 
AMEMBASSY VIENTIANE 
USCINCPAC HONOLULU HI
UNCLAS SECTION 01 OF 02 HANOI 002862 
 
SIPDIS 
 
STATE FOR DRL/IRF AND EAP/BCLTV 
 
E.O. 12958:  N/A 
TAGS: KIRF PHUM PREL VM ETMIN HUMANR RELFREE
SUBJECT: DISCUSSING RELIGIOUS FREEDOM WITH FM NIEN 
 
REF:  A.  STATE 235694 (NOTAL)      B.  STATE 241039 
 
-     C.  HANFORD/BURGHARDT E-MAIL  D.  HANOI 2694 
 
1.  (U)  SUMMARY.  AMBASSADOR EXPRESSED CONCERN TO FM NIEN 
ABOUT RECENT REPORTS OVER ABUSES OF RELIGIOUS FREEDOMS IN 
THE CENTRAL HIGHLANDS IN PARTICULAR, AND WARNED ABOUT A 
                       UNCLASSIFIED 
 
PAGE 02        HANOI  02862  01 OF 02  291001Z 
POSSIBLE DESIGNATION OF VIETNAM AS A "COUNTRY OF PARTICULAR 
CONCERN" UNDER THE INTERNATIONAL RELIGIOUS FREEDOM ACT.  FM 
NIEN CLAIMED SUCH REPORTS WERE "WRONG" BUT PROMISED TO TRY 
TO FIND OUT MORE.  THE GVN PERSPECTIVE ON THIS ISSUE IS SO 
DIFFERENT FROM THAT OF THE USG THAT GVN OFFICIALS MAY 
LITERALLY NOT UNDERSTAND THE SOURCE OF USG CONCERN, AND MAY 
BE INCLINED TO INFER SINISTER MOTIVES.  END SUMMARY. 
 
2.  (U)  AMBASSADOR STRESSED TO FOREIGN MINISTER NGUYEN DY 
NIEN IN A MEETING ON NOVEMBER 27 (SEPTELS) THE NEED FOR 
IMPROVEMENTS IN THE CONDITIONS FOR RELIGIOUS FREEDOM IN 
VIETNAM, AS DESCRIBED MOST RECENTLY BY AMBASSADOR-AT-LARGE 
FOR INTERNATIONAL RELIGIOUS FREEDOM JOHN HANFORD AND OTHER 
USG OFFICIALS DURING THE NOVEMBER 8 HUMAN RIGHTS DIALOGUE IN 
WASHINGTON (REFS A AND B).  HE NOTED THAT HE PLANNED TO 
DISCUSS THIS ISSUE IN MORE DEPTH WITH DEPUTY FOREIGN 
MINISTER LE VAN BANG AND GOVERNMENT COMMITTEE ON RELIGION LE 
QUANG VINH IN THE NEAR FUTURE. 
 
3.  (U)  AMBASSADOR HIGHLIGHTED RECENT REPORTS OF REPRESSION 
OF PROTESTANTS IN THE CENTRAL HIGHLANDS.  HE NOTED THAT MANY 
OFFICIALS IN DAK LAK AND GIA LAI PROVINCES IN PARTICULAR 
APPEARED TO ASSOCIATE ALL PROTESTANTS WITH THE DEGA 
SEPARATISTS, ALTHOUGH THE LATTER COMPOSE PERHAPS ONLY ONE 
PERCENT OF PROTESTANTS IN THIS AREA.  HE EXPRESSED CONCERN 
THAT AT LEAST SOME OFFICIALS TREATED ALL PROTESTANTS AS 
SUBVERSIVES AND TRIED TO CLAMP DOWN ON THEM.  HE REITERATED 
THE IMPORTANCE WITH WHICH THE U.S. VIEWED THE ISSUE OF 
RELIGIOUS FREEDOM, AND PLEDGED THAT WE WOULD CONTINUE TO 
MONITOR THE SITUATION CAREFULLY, INCLUDING FREQUENT VISITS 
BY OUR CONSULATE GENERAL AND EMBASSY STAFFS.  HE NOTED 
                       UNCLASSIFIED 
 
PAGE 03        HANOI  02862  01 OF 02  291001Z 
AMBASSADOR HANFORD'S WARNING THAT, ABSENT POSITIVE 
DEVELOPMENTS SOON, VIETNAM WOULD LIKELY BE DESIGNATED A 
"COUNTRY OF PARTICULAR CONCERN" UNDER THE INTERNATIONAL 
RELIGIOUS FREEDOM ACT, WHICH COULD HAVE SERIOUS NEGATIVE 
REPERCUSSIONS ON US ASSISTANCE AND INVESTMENT. 
 
4.  (U)  FM NIEN CLAIMED THAT US CONCERNS APPEARED TO BE 
BASED ON "WRONG INFORMATION" BUT PROMISED TO "FIND OUT."  HE 
ADMITTED THAT HE DID NOT KNOW EXACTLY HOW TO GO ABOUT 
"PROVING" THAT THE INFORMATION WAS WRONG, HOWEVER.  HE 
DESCRIBED OVERALL CONDITIONS IN THE CENTRAL HIGHLAND AS 
"MUCH IMPROVED," NOTING THAT HE HAD CONFIRMED THIS 
IMPRESSION WITH MANY RECENT VISITORS TO THE CENTRAL 
HIGHLANDS AS WELL AS WITH FELLOW NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DELEGATES 
FROM THAT REGION.  HE EMPHASIZED THAT SOME IN THE CENTRAL 
HIGHLANDS, HOWEVER, CONTINUED TO FOLLOW THE DEGA 
SEPARATISTS, AND THAT "MANY" IN VIETNAM DID "NOT UNDERSTAND 
THE US POSITION" ON THE DEGAS. 
 
5.  (U)  AMBASSADOR REITERATED WHAT HE HAD TOLD MINISTER FOR 
ETHNIC MINORITIES KSOR PHUOC (REF D):  THE U.S. HAD NO 
INTEREST IN THE SEPARATION OF A DEGA STATE AND INSTEAD 
SUPPORTED -- AND RECOGNIZED -- A UNIFIED VIETNAM.  HE 
STRESSED THAT THERE WAS "NO TRUTH" IN REPORTS OF ANY USG 
SUPPORT IN ANY WAY TO OVERTHROW THE GVN OR TO SET UP A 
SEPARATE STATE FOR THE DEGAS.  HE NOTED THAT EAP DAS DALEY 
HAD ALSO MADE THIS POINT DIRECTLY TO DEGA LEADER KOK KSOR. 
HE EXPRESSED CONCERN, HOWEVER, OVER REPORTS THAT SOME HOUSE 
CHURCHES IN THE CENTRAL HIGHLANDS HAD NOT BEEN ALLOWED TO 
JOIN THE SOUTHERN EVANGELICAL CHURCH OF VIETNAM (SECV), 
DESPITE PENDING APPLICATIONS, AND THAT MANY CHURCHES, 
                       UNCLASSIFIED 
 
PAGE 04        HANOI  02862  01 OF 02  291001Z 
PASTORS, AND BELIEVERS WERE SUBJECT TO UNDUE PRESSURES DUE 
TO THEIR "ILLEGAL" STATUS. 
 
6.  (U)  FM NIEN POINTED TO THE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO 
FREEDOM OF WORSHIP IN VIETNAM, BUT ADMITTED THAT CHURCHES 
LINKED WITH THE DEGA MOVEMENT WOULD INDEED NOT BE "ALLOWED." 
HE CLAIMED THAT ALL VIETNAMESE CITIZENS WERE FREE TO CHOOSE 
THEIR RELIGION AND SHOULD FACE "NO PROBLEM AT ALL."  HE SAID 
THAT THOSE CHURCHES THAT WISHED FORMAL TIES WITH THE SECV 
SHOULD APPLY THROUGH LOCAL OFFICIALS AND GET APPROPRIATE 
PERMISSION. 
 
7.   (U)  COMMENT:  THE FOREIGN MINISTER SEEMED TO HAVE A 
POOR GRASP OF THE ISSUE.  AT ONE POINT, HE DISCUSSED THE 
MATTER OF REGISTRATION OF A CHURCH AS IF IT WERE THE SAME AS 
OBTAINING A BUILDING PERMIT.  MOST GVN OFFICIALS, UNLESS 
THEY WORK DIRECTLY ON RELIGION POLICY, PROBABLY NEVER THINK 
ABOUT THE SUBJECT.  IN GENERAL, THE GVN AND CPV CONTINUE TO 
VIEW ALL FREEDOMS WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THE NEED FOR 
"NATIONAL SOLIDARITY" AND FOR STATE CONTROL (OR AT LEAST 
SUPERVISION) OVER ALL ASPECTS OF SOCIETY.  THEY CANNOT 
COMPREHEND WHY "HOUSE CHURCHES" OUTSIDE OF THE OFFICIAL 
 
                       UNCLASSIFIED 
 
                           UNCLASSIFIED     PTQ1119 
 
PAGE 01        HANOI  02862  02 OF 02  291001Z 
ACTION DRL-02 
 
INFO  LOG-00   NP-00    CIAE-00  DODE-00  DS-00    EAP-00   FBIE-00 
      UTED-00  VC-00    TEDE-00  INR-00   LAB-01   VCE-00   NSAE-00 
      SSO-00   SS-00    TEST-00  USIE-00  IIP-00   DSCC-00  PRM-00 
      NFAT-00  SAS-00     /003W 
                  ------------------1025F8  291001Z /38 
O 290935Z NOV 02 
FM AMEMBASSY HANOI 
TO SECSTATE WASHDC IMMEDIATE 8215 
INFO AMCONSUL HO CHI MINH CITY 
AMEMBASSY PHNOM PENH 
AMEMBASSY VIENTIANE 
USCINCPAC HONOLULU HI 
 
UNCLAS SECTION 02 OF 02 HANOI 002862 
 
SIPDIS 
 
STATE FOR DRL/IRF AND EAP/BCLTV 
 
FRAMEWORK SHOULD EXIST OR WHY THE USG SHOULD CARE ABOUT WHAT 
THEY SEE AS CLEARLY "ILLEGAL" AND POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS ANTI- 
STATE ORGANIZATIONS.  CONVINCED, AS ALWAYS, THAT THE PARTY 
AND STATE "KNOW BEST," THEY LIKELY CANNOT GENUINELY FATHOM 
THE TRUE NATURE OF US AND INTERNATIONAL CONCERN OVER THE 
HIGHLANDS AND ELSEWHERE.  FURTHERMORE, MANY OFFICIALS BOTH 
                       UNCLASSIFIED 
 
PAGE 02        HANOI  02862  02 OF 02  291001Z 
AT THE CENTRAL AND LOCAL LEVELS ARE PROBABLY INCLINED TO 
INFER SINISTER MOTIVES FOR SUCH EXPRESSIONS OF CONCERN. 
BURGHARDT 
 
                       UNCLASSIFIED